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Рейхкригсмарине

von Echenbach: Попытаемся рассмотреть возможные варианты развития или совершенствования кораблей и/или тактики немецкого флота в 1939-1945, м.б. с изначалья - с 1920. Враг был силен, умен и очень хорошо обучен и оснащён. М.б. некоторые идеи можно будет взять на вооружение АИ ВМС РККА СССР. Например: ЛгКР оснастить булями и усилить ПВО ТКА (S) добавить бугельные или трубные ТА за основными (носовыми). Старые броненосцы - как "большие КЛ", корабли поддержки Лг. сил и, - особенно6 ПВО (до 24 88-105мм) ВМС Авиация - ? Уклон в Авианосцы - ? Ведрение "КЛ" - ? Методы применения ВспКР - ? Средства РЭ обнаружения - м.б. не трогать?

Ответов - 72, стр: 1 2 3 4 All

Заинька: von Echenbach пишет: ВМС Авиация ВМС Авиации. В смысле, подчинить авианосцы Гёрингу, вместе с потребным охвостьем эсминцев и т.п. =)

von Echenbach: Экранопланы - ? ТКА ВП. Техногенно-заклепочное фантазирование: насколько могли быть эффективны противоторпедные "щиты-сети" на кронштейнах по периметру корпуса (от носа на 2/3-3/4 длины) на расстоянии 3-4 м? Могли ли подобные "щиты" уменьшать гидродинамические удары от взрывов МЗ или АБ по основному корпусу? Естественно, конструкция ухудшает скоростные и маневренные элементы корабля. Для ЛК, КР и ЭМ ...

von Echenbach: "Эльбинги" - в 3х2 105 (4х2). Странно, что не ставили спарки 88- или 105 на ЭМ, обходились 20 и 37 мм. Всякие "Нарвики": 1 ТА, 3х2 127мм. "Кёльны": близкие к юж-амер. 3х2 180, 6х2 102/88, пояс - 120, палуба - 50. Пошире були


von Echenbach: Шведы строят для германцев "суперкарманники". С консультациями голландцев. Позиционируются как корабли "дальней" береговой обороны. Все могут только догадываться :-) Развитие проекта - Вооружение: а. 2 башни ГК, в середине корпуса, как на древних Монархе и Пройссенах, 2х2 12", 3х2 11", 2х2 15"; б. 3х2 ГК (схема де Рейтер-Кельн) СК - 2(4)х1 - 6" нос, корма (для расстрела ТР или "пристрелочные"/можно без 6"/, 12 (12х2) универсальные 105-мм, 2х3 ТА, 12- 37-мм. СК - на палубе полубака и полуюта - по 4 установке и 4 установки - по миделю (Вейнемейнен схема - ?) Бронирование - пояс: 90-180-90, палуба (-ы) - 60-90-60. Хотелось бы ГТУ, но м.б. дизели и/или электротурбинныая ДУ, 2-4 вала, 60-80 000 л.с. 28-31 уз, На 13 уз - 33000 миль. 14000т (16-18 000 т). ГидроавиаКР: ГК - ориентирован к корме, СК - мидель/ и корма. Нос - 2 катапульты и 2-4 операционных лифта-крана с бортовыми лац-портами для приема самолетов. 9 Лг истребителей, 9 ИБ, 9 торпедоносцев-разведчиков + м.б. 9 ПБ. Схемы и шарп - позже.

GromoBoy: А зачем башни в середине корпуса?

von Echenbach: GromoBoy пишет: А зачем башни в середине корпуса? Возможно для улучшения мореходности и защиты: разгрузка оконечностей, более толстая броня по центру. Шарп, начальный неотполированный вариант. Prussen аи, Germany BCr аи laid down 1932 Barbette ship Displacement: 11 233 t light; 12 028 t standard; 14 817 t normal; 17 047 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (551,51 ft / 538,06 ft) x 72,18 ft x (24,28 / 27,22 ft) (168,10 m / 164,00 m) x 22,00 m x (7,40 / 8,30 m) Armament: 4 - 14,96" / 380 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1 688,52lbs / 765,90kg shells, 100 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft 1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward 16 - 4,17" / 106 mm 45,0 cal guns - 36,65lbs / 16,62kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in open barbette mounts, 1932 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck forward 4 raised mounts 4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck aft 4 raised mounts 12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 1,64lbs / 0,74kg shells, 850 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 7 360 lbs / 3 338 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm 311,68 ft / 95,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 3,54" / 90 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 29,53 ft / 9,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 89% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 8,46" / 215 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 7,48" / 190 mm 2nd: 0,98" / 25 mm - 4,72" / 120 mm 3rd: 0,47" / 12 mm - - - Protected deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 2,36" / 60 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric motors, 3 shafts, 73 205 shp / 54 611 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 24 000nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 5 019 tons Complement: 670 - 872 Cost: £6,211 million / $24,843 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 270 tons, 8,6% - Guns: 1 270 tons, 8,6% Armour: 4 412 tons, 29,8% - Belts: 1 289 tons, 8,7% - Armament: 1 290 tons, 8,7% - Armour Deck: 1 710 tons, 11,5% - Conning Towers: 123 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 2 161 tons, 14,6% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 391 tons, 22,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 583 tons, 24,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 10 909 lbs / 4 948 Kg = 6,5 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16 Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 15,0 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,85 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , an extended bulbous bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,550 / 0,564 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,45 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,15 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,94 ft / 6,69 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155,4% Waterplane Area: 27 772 Square feet or 2 580 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98% Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 445 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,54 - Longitudinal: 1,29 - Overall: 0,59 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Warning: Wrong mount for dual purpose gun - 2nd Battery

von Echenbach: Общая схема и варианты: А - базовый проект, рассматривался проект с классическим расположением башен ГК - в оконечностях, но был отклонен вследствие желания ГК (ОКМ) улучшить мореходность. ГК - 12" (3х2) или 15" (2х2). В - проект малого рейдера-авианосца (3х2 8" или 12"), катапульты - в носу, как и авиагруппа. Все имеют от 12 до 16(24) орудий СК в универсальных установках. С - варианты расположения ГК, Много внимания уделено ретирадной схеме. D - варианты расположения СК. ТА - 2х3 побортно - где позволит место или в корме 2х1 поворотные в надстройке полуюта. Авиагруппа - до 18 самолетов.

von Echenbach: О! оказывается в дебрях нашего форума есть и такая тема. Хм, немного напрасно открыл тему "аи-операции кригсмарине"). Но поскольку попалась, а некоторое отношение вопрос может иметь и к этому аи-флоту: Метод уклонения от накрытий "погоня за залпом" с 1916 г. часто применялась англичанами, особенно легкими силами. Позднее все применяли этот метод. Собственно вопрос: а какие способы борьбы с "погоней за залпом" применяли артиллеристы?

Dampir: http://alternatiwa.org.ru/_6.04.08/1-20-2520-00002949-000-0-0.html

von Echenbach: Спасибо ув. Дампир. Пирату, поэту и путешественнику - ура!

von Echenbach: Вариант развития флотов Кайзера и Кайзера и Короля: Провалившись с развитием "тяжелого" крейсера в ответ на линейный крейсер англичан "Инвинсибл" немецкие теоретики задумались. На линейные корабли, кроме австро-венгерских, новшество в виде трехорудийных башен внедрено не было. Но - для перспективных проектов броненосных крейсеров и даже легких - были составлены проекты. В аи некоторые корабли были построены. Тяжелый броненосный крейсер (океанский рейдер) - 3х3 240-мм. Лёгкий (эскадренный) - 3х3 210-мм. Тяжелый разведывательный - 3х3 150-мм и легкий разведывательный - споры продолжаются. Предпочтение классике. 1. 2. 3. Рисунки из Shipbucket. Детали - позднее

von Echenbach: По Лг-Т-Лн крейсерам - пока затишье идей. Думается... НО - идея развития вынесенной ПТЗ, с магнитно-акустическими усилителями. Система тримарана, бортовые поплавки крепятся на трапециевидных блоках (7-12 шт). Установка с помощью плав.крана при выходе на рейд. Функция - защита ПТЗ 2/3 длины линкора/крейсера, преимущественно - корма. Но можно и прикреплять для усиления и выдвижения параванов-тралов.. В "свободном состоянии поплавок м.б. использован в качестве плав батареи ПВО. Корпуса формируются на основе проекта ЭМ. Всп. двигатель - дизель. Можно добавить и катапульту с Гидросамолетами в носу. Дополнительный груз - топливо. Расстояние по осям корпусов - до 15-20м, т.е. "вынос" около 12-15 м. Trimaram sidе BB protection, аи Германия бортовой ПТЗ-тримаран laid down 1934 DESIGN FAILURE: Ship will capsize Displacement: 1 697 t light; 1 780 t standard; 1 933 t normal; 2 055 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (499,92 ft / 482,28 ft) x 13,12 ft x (19,69 / 20,62 ft) (152,37 m / 147,00 m) x 4,00 m x (6,00 / 6,29 m) Armament: 6 - 4,13" / 105 mm 50,0 cal guns - 37,39lbs / 16,96kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 3 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 2 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 450 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 228 lbs / 103 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,62" / 92 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 42% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - 2nd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 0,94" / 24 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,00" / 0 mm, Aft 0,94" / 24 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 1 shaft, 5 410 shp / 4 036 Kw = 19,00 kts Range 4 000nm at 12,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 275 tons Complement: 145 - 189 Cost: £0,459 million / $1,835 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 41 tons, 2,1% - Guns: 41 tons, 2,1% Armour: 328 tons, 17,0% - Belts: 252 tons, 13,0% - Armament: 8 tons, 0,4% - Armour Deck: 66 tons, 3,4% - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0,2% Machinery: 156 tons, 8,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 012 tons, 52,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 236 tons, 12,2% Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 8,3% - Hull below water: 150 tons - Hull above water: 5 tons - On freeboard deck: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 135 lbs / 61 Kg = 3,8 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0,42 Metacentric height 0,0 ft / 0,0 m Roll period: NaN seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 14,79 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,543 / 0,551 Length to Beam Ratio: 36,75 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 23,26 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 18 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,18 ft / 5,24 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 44,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,4% Waterplane Area: 4 568 Square feet or 424 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 211% Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 127 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,66 - Longitudinal: 14,84 - Overall: 0,90 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather P.S.: Дополнение к тексту 26.01.19 - Идея "тримаран защищенный" (Trimaran protected - так обзовут идею англичане)... А если - в пространство между корпусом и поплавками подвешивать(поднимать на фермы-рамы креплений поплавка): 1) минные-торпедные катера. Могут выполнять обязанности и малых ТЩ, ближнего ПЛО в хорошую погоду; 2) Малые ПЛ. Более вероятно применение "нагрузки" для "тримаранов" в качестве КЛ, десантного корабля (высадка), корабля эскорта, корабля-базы.

von Echenbach: Эльбинги аи Ягуар МН аи мод, аи Германия Супер-Эльбинг МН laid down 1936 А- проект Displacement: 1 121 t light; 1 178 t standard; 1 235 t normal; 1 280 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (374,42 ft / 364,17 ft) x 22,97 ft x (9,84 / 10,11 ft) (114,12 m / 111,00 m) x 7,00 m x (3,00 / 3,08 m) Armament: 6 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 750 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 220 lbs / 100 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,347 t each, 8,079 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 165,35 lbs / 75,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 1,476 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,55" / 14 mm 0,39" / 10 mm - 2nd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,55" / 14 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22 612 shp / 16 868 Kw = 31,50 kts Range 1 200nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 102 tons Complement: 103 - 135 Cost: £0,692 million / $2,770 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 62 tons, 5,0% - Guns: 44 tons, 3,5% - Weapons: 18 tons, 1,5% Armour: 13 tons, 1,1% - Armament: 12 tons, 1,0% - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 580 tons, 47,0% Hull, fittings & equipment: 461 tons, 37,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 114 tons, 9,2% Miscellaneous weights: 5 tons, 0,4% - Hull below water: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 542 lbs / 246 Kg = 15,3 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10 Metacentric height 0,7 ft / 0,2 m Roll period: 11,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 46 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,57 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,84 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,525 / 0,530 Length to Beam Ratio: 15,86 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,05 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Average freeboard: 10,49 ft / 3,20 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 162,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 82,8% Waterplane Area: 5 933 Square feet or 551 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89% Structure weight / hull surface area: 41 lbs/sq ft or 200 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,89 - Longitudinal: 1,45 - Overall: 0,94 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather Б-проект: Displacement: 1 279 t light; 1 349 t standard; 1 411 t normal; 1 461 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (375,81 ft / 364,17 ft) x 26,25 ft x (9,84 / 10,13 ft) (114,55 m / 111,00 m) x 8,00 m x (3,00 / 3,09 m) Armament: 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 750 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 292 lbs / 132 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,347 t each, 8,079 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 165,35 lbs / 75,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 1,476 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,55" / 14 mm 0,39" / 10 mm - 2nd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,55" / 14 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 24 783 shp / 18 488 Kw = 31,50 kts Range 1 200nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 111 tons Complement: 114 - 149 Cost: £0,792 million / $3,166 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 75 tons, 5,3% - Guns: 57 tons, 4,1% - Weapons: 18 tons, 1,3% Armour: 16 tons, 1,1% - Armament: 15 tons, 1,0% - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 651 tons, 46,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 531 tons, 37,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 133 tons, 9,4% Miscellaneous weights: 5 tons, 0,4% - Hull below water: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 647 lbs / 293 Kg = 18,3 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08 Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,2 m Roll period: 12,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,66 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,22 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,525 / 0,528 Length to Beam Ratio: 13,88 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,23 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Average freeboard: 13,51 ft / 4,12 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 161,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116,1% Waterplane Area: 6 781 Square feet or 630 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91% Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 189 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,74 - Longitudinal: 2,37 - Overall: 0,83 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

von Echenbach: Возможно - повторение. Для "против фашистов" - у союзников новые "ключи". Просто варианты. Нет негодного Т-35 у германцев. А Т-39аи близок к "Ханту" с уменьшенной скоростью и дальностью - ибо и то, и то - не особо пригодилось в РеИ и при применении "послезнания" можно "чуть улучшить". То же к "Дейчланд"-"Шарнхорст" (аи) - Шарнгорст-шеер аи, аи Германия карманный ЛК laid down 1930 Barbette ship Displacement: 12 528 t light; 13 449 t standard; 15 834 t normal; 17 741 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (664,78 ft / 643,04 ft) x 59,06 ft x (26,25 / 28,69 ft) (202,62 m / 196,00 m) x 18,00 m x (8,00 / 8,75 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 50,0 cal guns - 709,07lbs / 321,63kg shells, 170 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1930 Model 2 x Triple mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft 1 x Triple mount on centreline, forward deck forward 12 - 0,47" / 12,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,05lbs / 0,02kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 raised mounts - superfiring 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 1,71lbs / 0,78kg shells, 150 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 6 396 lbs / 2 901 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,323 t each, 7,935 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 110,23 lbs / 50,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,492 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 314,96 ft / 96,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 0,79" / 20 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 131,23 ft / 40,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 75% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,65" / 16 mm 5,51" / 140 mm 2nd: 0,94" / 24 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - 3rd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Armoured deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 3,23" / 82 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,89" / 48 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,23" / 82 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 69 825 shp / 52 090 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 12 000nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4 292 tons Complement: 705 - 917 Cost: £5,018 million / $20,070 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 274 tons, 8,0% - Guns: 1 257 tons, 7,9% - Weapons: 16 tons, 0,1% Armour: 3 236 tons, 20,4% - Belts: 910 tons, 5,7% - Armament: 780 tons, 4,9% - Armour Deck: 1 502 tons, 9,5% - Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 2 116 tons, 13,4% Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 903 tons, 37,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 305 tons, 20,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 21 228 lbs / 9 629 Kg = 31,7 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16 Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 14,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,86 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,11 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,556 / 0,570 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,89 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 27,02 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 37,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 18,80 ft / 5,73 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,3% Waterplane Area: 27 311 Square feet or 2 537 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133% Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 713 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,19 - Longitudinal: 1,60 - Overall: 1,23 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room

von Echenbach: Доведение до абсурда идеи "флотского малого миноносца - лидера ТКА" (в реале Т-35 миноносцы) аи Т-35 Шихау МН-ТКА, а Германия аи МН-ТКА laid down 1934 (1-3 105,3-4 37, 2х4 и 4х1 (по два ТА в носу с борта, вертикально расположена пара, т.о. с ТКА есть некоторое сходство идей) Displacement: 817 t light; 846 t standard; 913 t normal; 967 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (282,34 ft / 269,03 ft) x 26,25 ft x (9,84 / 10,24 ft) (86,06 m / 82,00 m) x 8,00 m x (3,00 / 3,12 m) Armament: 3 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 114 lbs / 52 kg Main Torpedoes 8 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,339 t each, 10,708 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes 2nd Torpedoes 4 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,339 t each, 5,354 t total In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 1,181 t total in Stern depth charge racks 2nd DC/AS Mortars 2 - 264,55 lbs / 120,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 1,181 t total in Depth charge throwers Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,35" / 9 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 2nd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,47" / 12 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22 966 shp / 17 133 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 1 600nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 121 tons Complement: 82 - 107 Cost: £0,491 million / $1,964 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 55 tons, 6,0% - Guns: 23 tons, 2,5% - Weapons: 31 tons, 3,4% Armour: 8 tons, 0,9% - Armament: 7 tons, 0,8% - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 469 tons, 51,4% Hull, fittings & equipment: 281 tons, 30,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 97 tons, 10,6% Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0,4% - Hull below water: 4 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 314 lbs / 143 Kg = 8,9 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28 Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m Roll period: 10,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,460 / 0,468 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,25 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18,77 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 41,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 14,09 ft / 4,29 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108,2% Waterplane Area: 4 719 Square feet or 438 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 66% Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 132 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,49 - Longitudinal: 4,01 - Overall: 0,61 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room

von Echenbach: Идея "карманного авианосца" (ЛгКР-разведчик при рейдерской эскадре с функциями ЛгАВ) В носовой части ддвухэтажный ангар, две катапульты, Арадо-196 8-12ед, или + Fi-167?). Можно оставить только 2-4 самолета. Или принять возможность посадки запущенных самолетов на большой авианосец для заправки (при колесном варианте) в составе рейдерской эскадры: ЛК, КармЛК, АВ, 2 ЛгКР-разв/авТР, 2 ТР снабжения быстроходных. Метеор аи лгКР-рейдер ав разв, аи Германия КР-АВТР laid down 1934 Displacement: 6 641 t light; 6 962 t standard; 7 561 t normal; 8 040 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (496,71 ft / 482,28 ft) x 52,49 ft x (19,69 / 20,61 ft) (151,40 m / 147,00 m) x 16,00 m x (6,00 / 6,28 m) Armament: 6 - 5,91" / 150 mm 55,0 cal guns - 111,15lbs / 50,42kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model 3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 1 raised mount aft 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 450 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread Weight of broadside 965 lbs / 438 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,339 t each, 5,354 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 311,68 ft / 95,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 2,36" / 60 mm 311,68 ft / 95,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 99% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm 0,39" / 10 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 68 149 shp / 50 839 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 077 tons Complement: 405 - 527 Cost: £2,940 million / $11,758 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 295 tons, 3,9% - Guns: 283 tons, 3,7% - Weapons: 11 tons, 0,2% Armour: 1 483 tons, 19,6% - Belts: 597 tons, 7,9% - Armament: 125 tons, 1,6% - Armour Deck: 723 tons, 9,6% - Conning Towers: 39 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 961 tons, 25,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 832 tons, 37,5% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 920 tons, 12,2% Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 0,9% - Hull below water: 45 tons - Hull above water: 10 tons - On freeboard deck: 10 tons - Above deck: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 552 lbs / 4 333 Kg = 92,8 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13 Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 14,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,531 / 0,539 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,19 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,14 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,19 ft / 6,16 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161,8% Waterplane Area: 18 063 Square feet or 1 678 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119% Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 469 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,00 - Longitudinal: 2,47 - Overall: 1,10 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace

von Echenbach: Развитие крейсера-авианосца: отказ от 6" (15-см) артиллерии, продление полетной палубы на всю длину над ангаром. После рассмотрения проектов с выдвижными гидравлическими лифтами (сначала рассматривался проект с 4 устройствами - по два на борт, затем их количество уменьшилось до 2 - с одного борта в районе комплекса Управления "остров") стационарных, Остров и лифты вынесены на /вне правого борт. Авиагруппа: 18-30 самолета (6-12 истр (ИБ), 6-9 Т (Fi-167), 6-9 ПБ-Т Ju87MT). 8000т, 32 уз, 80-мм борт, 60 - палуба, по 8 127- и 100-мм. "Зееадлер" аи лёгкий рейдер-авиакрейсер, 1935 Displacement: 7 127 t light; 7 394 t standard; 8 015 t normal; 8 511 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (521,06 ft / 501,97 ft) x 55,77 ft x (19,69 / 20,57 ft) (158,82 m / 153,00 m) x 17,00 m x (6,00 / 6,27 m) Armament: 8 - 5,00" / 127 mm 45,0 cal guns - 63,03lbs / 28,59kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1934 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 55,0 cal guns - 38,13lbs / 17,29kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 822 lbs / 373 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 331,36 ft / 101,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 1,57" / 40 mm 331,36 ft / 101,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Main Belt covers 102% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,57" / 40 mm - - 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,15" / 80 mm, Aft 0,79" / 20 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 68 680 shp / 51 235 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 117 tons Complement: 423 - 550 Cost: £2,793 million / $11,171 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 162 tons, 2,0% - Guns: 162 tons, 2,0% Armour: 1 647 tons, 20,5% - Belts: 765 tons, 9,5% - Armament: 39 tons, 0,5% - Armour Deck: 808 tons, 10,1% - Conning Towers: 34 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 1 976 tons, 24,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 343 tons, 29,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 888 tons, 11,1% Miscellaneous weights: 1 000 tons, 12,5% - Hull below water: 600 tons - Hull above water: 200 tons - On freeboard deck: 50 tons - Above deck: 150 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 889 lbs / 4 486 Kg = 158,2 x 5,0 " / 127 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21 Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 13,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,14 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,44 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,509 / 0,517 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,75 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 23,49 ft / 7,16 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 202,3% Waterplane Area: 19 563 Square feet or 1 817 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114% Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 334 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,74 - Longitudinal: 2,41 - Overall: 0,84 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

von Echenbach: Быстроходная ПЛ типа аи "9-Б" для действий в составе крейсерского отряда, при быстроходных ТР снабжения и авианосной группе. Структура крейсерского отряда: 1. Группа тяжелых кораблей: ЛК, ТКР и 1 Лг.КР-разведчик, 2. группа легких кораблей: Авианосный крейсер, 1Лг.КР-разведчик, 2 быстроходных Транспорта, 2-4 ПЛ. Дополнительно прорабатывалась возможность снабжения с применением подводных транспортов.

Пан директор: von Echenbach пишет: Структура крейсерского отряда: 1. Группа тяжелых кораблей: ЛК, ТКР и 1 Лг.КР-разведчик, 2. группа легких кораблей: Авианосный крейсер, 1Лг.КР-разведчик, 2 быстроходных Транспорта, 2-4 ПЛ. Дополнительно прорабатывалась возможность снабжения с применением подводных транспортов. Таким бы хлебальцем да медку бы хлебнуть. В реальности немцы для таких действий имели один тяжелый корабль плюс немного эсминцев. Пока Гитлер не запретил выпускать тяжелые корабли в море.

von Echenbach: Пан директор пишет: В реальности - объективная реальность дана нам в ... :-) М.б. германцам не стоило "бисмарки" делать?



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