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Рейхкригсмарине
von Echenbach: Попытаемся рассмотреть возможные варианты развития или совершенствования кораблей и/или тактики немецкого флота в 1939-1945, м.б. с изначалья - с 1920. Враг был силен, умен и очень хорошо обучен и оснащён. М.б. некоторые идеи можно будет взять на вооружение АИ ВМС РККА СССР. Например: ЛгКР оснастить булями и усилить ПВО ТКА (S) добавить бугельные или трубные ТА за основными (носовыми). Старые броненосцы - как "большие КЛ", корабли поддержки Лг. сил и, - особенно6 ПВО (до 24 88-105мм) ВМС Авиация - ? Уклон в Авианосцы - ? Ведрение "КЛ" - ? Методы применения ВспКР - ? Средства РЭ обнаружения - м.б. не трогать?
Ответов - 72, стр:
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Заинька: von Echenbach пишет: ВМС Авиация ВМС Авиации. В смысле, подчинить авианосцы Гёрингу, вместе с потребным охвостьем эсминцев и т.п. =)
von Echenbach: Экранопланы - ? ТКА ВП. Техногенно-заклепочное фантазирование: насколько могли быть эффективны противоторпедные "щиты-сети" на кронштейнах по периметру корпуса (от носа на 2/3-3/4 длины) на расстоянии 3-4 м? Могли ли подобные "щиты" уменьшать гидродинамические удары от взрывов МЗ или АБ по основному корпусу? Естественно, конструкция ухудшает скоростные и маневренные элементы корабля. Для ЛК, КР и ЭМ ...
von Echenbach: "Эльбинги" - в 3х2 105 (4х2). Странно, что не ставили спарки 88- или 105 на ЭМ, обходились 20 и 37 мм. Всякие "Нарвики": 1 ТА, 3х2 127мм. "Кёльны": близкие к юж-амер. 3х2 180, 6х2 102/88, пояс - 120, палуба - 50. Пошире були
von Echenbach: Шведы строят для германцев "суперкарманники". С консультациями голландцев. Позиционируются как корабли "дальней" береговой обороны. Все могут только догадываться :-) Развитие проекта - Вооружение: а. 2 башни ГК, в середине корпуса, как на древних Монархе и Пройссенах, 2х2 12", 3х2 11", 2х2 15"; б. 3х2 ГК (схема де Рейтер-Кельн) СК - 2(4)х1 - 6" нос, корма (для расстрела ТР или "пристрелочные"/можно без 6"/, 12 (12х2) универсальные 105-мм, 2х3 ТА, 12- 37-мм. СК - на палубе полубака и полуюта - по 4 установке и 4 установки - по миделю (Вейнемейнен схема - ?) Бронирование - пояс: 90-180-90, палуба (-ы) - 60-90-60. Хотелось бы ГТУ, но м.б. дизели и/или электротурбинныая ДУ, 2-4 вала, 60-80 000 л.с. 28-31 уз, На 13 уз - 33000 миль. 14000т (16-18 000 т). ГидроавиаКР: ГК - ориентирован к корме, СК - мидель/ и корма. Нос - 2 катапульты и 2-4 операционных лифта-крана с бортовыми лац-портами для приема самолетов. 9 Лг истребителей, 9 ИБ, 9 торпедоносцев-разведчиков + м.б. 9 ПБ. Схемы и шарп - позже.
GromoBoy: А зачем башни в середине корпуса?
von Echenbach: GromoBoy пишет: А зачем башни в середине корпуса? Возможно для улучшения мореходности и защиты: разгрузка оконечностей, более толстая броня по центру. Шарп, начальный неотполированный вариант. Prussen аи, Germany BCr аи laid down 1932 Barbette ship Displacement: 11 233 t light; 12 028 t standard; 14 817 t normal; 17 047 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (551,51 ft / 538,06 ft) x 72,18 ft x (24,28 / 27,22 ft) (168,10 m / 164,00 m) x 22,00 m x (7,40 / 8,30 m) Armament: 4 - 14,96" / 380 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1 688,52lbs / 765,90kg shells, 100 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft 1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward 16 - 4,17" / 106 mm 45,0 cal guns - 36,65lbs / 16,62kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in open barbette mounts, 1932 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck forward 4 raised mounts 4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck aft 4 raised mounts 12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 1,64lbs / 0,74kg shells, 850 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 7 360 lbs / 3 338 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm 311,68 ft / 95,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 3,54" / 90 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 29,53 ft / 9,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 89% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 8,46" / 215 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 7,48" / 190 mm 2nd: 0,98" / 25 mm - 4,72" / 120 mm 3rd: 0,47" / 12 mm - - - Protected deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 2,36" / 60 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric motors, 3 shafts, 73 205 shp / 54 611 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 24 000nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 5 019 tons Complement: 670 - 872 Cost: £6,211 million / $24,843 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 270 tons, 8,6% - Guns: 1 270 tons, 8,6% Armour: 4 412 tons, 29,8% - Belts: 1 289 tons, 8,7% - Armament: 1 290 tons, 8,7% - Armour Deck: 1 710 tons, 11,5% - Conning Towers: 123 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 2 161 tons, 14,6% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 391 tons, 22,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 583 tons, 24,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 10 909 lbs / 4 948 Kg = 6,5 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16 Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 15,0 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,85 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , an extended bulbous bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,550 / 0,564 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,45 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,15 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,94 ft / 6,69 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155,4% Waterplane Area: 27 772 Square feet or 2 580 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98% Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 445 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,54 - Longitudinal: 1,29 - Overall: 0,59 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Warning: Wrong mount for dual purpose gun - 2nd Battery
von Echenbach: Общая схема и варианты: А - базовый проект, рассматривался проект с классическим расположением башен ГК - в оконечностях, но был отклонен вследствие желания ГК (ОКМ) улучшить мореходность. ГК - 12" (3х2) или 15" (2х2). В - проект малого рейдера-авианосца (3х2 8" или 12"), катапульты - в носу, как и авиагруппа. Все имеют от 12 до 16(24) орудий СК в универсальных установках. С - варианты расположения ГК, Много внимания уделено ретирадной схеме. D - варианты расположения СК. ТА - 2х3 побортно - где позволит место или в корме 2х1 поворотные в надстройке полуюта. Авиагруппа - до 18 самолетов.
von Echenbach: О! оказывается в дебрях нашего форума есть и такая тема. Хм, немного напрасно открыл тему "аи-операции кригсмарине"). Но поскольку попалась, а некоторое отношение вопрос может иметь и к этому аи-флоту: Метод уклонения от накрытий "погоня за залпом" с 1916 г. часто применялась англичанами, особенно легкими силами. Позднее все применяли этот метод. Собственно вопрос: а какие способы борьбы с "погоней за залпом" применяли артиллеристы?
Dampir: http://alternatiwa.org.ru/_6.04.08/1-20-2520-00002949-000-0-0.html
von Echenbach: Спасибо ув. Дампир. Пирату, поэту и путешественнику - ура!
von Echenbach: Вариант развития флотов Кайзера и Кайзера и Короля: Провалившись с развитием "тяжелого" крейсера в ответ на линейный крейсер англичан "Инвинсибл" немецкие теоретики задумались. На линейные корабли, кроме австро-венгерских, новшество в виде трехорудийных башен внедрено не было. Но - для перспективных проектов броненосных крейсеров и даже легких - были составлены проекты. В аи некоторые корабли были построены. Тяжелый броненосный крейсер (океанский рейдер) - 3х3 240-мм. Лёгкий (эскадренный) - 3х3 210-мм. Тяжелый разведывательный - 3х3 150-мм и легкий разведывательный - споры продолжаются. Предпочтение классике. 1. 2. 3. Рисунки из Shipbucket. Детали - позднее
von Echenbach: По Лг-Т-Лн крейсерам - пока затишье идей. Думается... НО - идея развития вынесенной ПТЗ, с магнитно-акустическими усилителями. Система тримарана, бортовые поплавки крепятся на трапециевидных блоках (7-12 шт). Установка с помощью плав.крана при выходе на рейд. Функция - защита ПТЗ 2/3 длины линкора/крейсера, преимущественно - корма. Но можно и прикреплять для усиления и выдвижения параванов-тралов.. В "свободном состоянии поплавок м.б. использован в качестве плав батареи ПВО. Корпуса формируются на основе проекта ЭМ. Всп. двигатель - дизель. Можно добавить и катапульту с Гидросамолетами в носу. Дополнительный груз - топливо. Расстояние по осям корпусов - до 15-20м, т.е. "вынос" около 12-15 м. Trimaram sidе BB protection, аи Германия бортовой ПТЗ-тримаран laid down 1934 DESIGN FAILURE: Ship will capsize Displacement: 1 697 t light; 1 780 t standard; 1 933 t normal; 2 055 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (499,92 ft / 482,28 ft) x 13,12 ft x (19,69 / 20,62 ft) (152,37 m / 147,00 m) x 4,00 m x (6,00 / 6,29 m) Armament: 6 - 4,13" / 105 mm 50,0 cal guns - 37,39lbs / 16,96kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 3 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 2 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 450 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 228 lbs / 103 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,62" / 92 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 42% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - 2nd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 0,94" / 24 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,00" / 0 mm, Aft 0,94" / 24 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 1 shaft, 5 410 shp / 4 036 Kw = 19,00 kts Range 4 000nm at 12,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 275 tons Complement: 145 - 189 Cost: £0,459 million / $1,835 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 41 tons, 2,1% - Guns: 41 tons, 2,1% Armour: 328 tons, 17,0% - Belts: 252 tons, 13,0% - Armament: 8 tons, 0,4% - Armour Deck: 66 tons, 3,4% - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0,2% Machinery: 156 tons, 8,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 012 tons, 52,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 236 tons, 12,2% Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 8,3% - Hull below water: 150 tons - Hull above water: 5 tons - On freeboard deck: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 135 lbs / 61 Kg = 3,8 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0,42 Metacentric height 0,0 ft / 0,0 m Roll period: NaN seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 14,79 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,543 / 0,551 Length to Beam Ratio: 36,75 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 23,26 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 18 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,18 ft / 5,24 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 44,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,4% Waterplane Area: 4 568 Square feet or 424 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 211% Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 127 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,66 - Longitudinal: 14,84 - Overall: 0,90 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather P.S.: Дополнение к тексту 26.01.19 - Идея "тримаран защищенный" (Trimaran protected - так обзовут идею англичане)... А если - в пространство между корпусом и поплавками подвешивать(поднимать на фермы-рамы креплений поплавка): 1) минные-торпедные катера. Могут выполнять обязанности и малых ТЩ, ближнего ПЛО в хорошую погоду; 2) Малые ПЛ. Более вероятно применение "нагрузки" для "тримаранов" в качестве КЛ, десантного корабля (высадка), корабля эскорта, корабля-базы.
von Echenbach: Эльбинги аи Ягуар МН аи мод, аи Германия Супер-Эльбинг МН laid down 1936 А- проект Displacement: 1 121 t light; 1 178 t standard; 1 235 t normal; 1 280 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (374,42 ft / 364,17 ft) x 22,97 ft x (9,84 / 10,11 ft) (114,12 m / 111,00 m) x 7,00 m x (3,00 / 3,08 m) Armament: 6 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 750 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 220 lbs / 100 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,347 t each, 8,079 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 165,35 lbs / 75,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 1,476 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,55" / 14 mm 0,39" / 10 mm - 2nd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,55" / 14 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22 612 shp / 16 868 Kw = 31,50 kts Range 1 200nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 102 tons Complement: 103 - 135 Cost: £0,692 million / $2,770 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 62 tons, 5,0% - Guns: 44 tons, 3,5% - Weapons: 18 tons, 1,5% Armour: 13 tons, 1,1% - Armament: 12 tons, 1,0% - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 580 tons, 47,0% Hull, fittings & equipment: 461 tons, 37,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 114 tons, 9,2% Miscellaneous weights: 5 tons, 0,4% - Hull below water: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 542 lbs / 246 Kg = 15,3 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10 Metacentric height 0,7 ft / 0,2 m Roll period: 11,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 46 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,57 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,84 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,525 / 0,530 Length to Beam Ratio: 15,86 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,05 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Average freeboard: 10,49 ft / 3,20 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 162,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 82,8% Waterplane Area: 5 933 Square feet or 551 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89% Structure weight / hull surface area: 41 lbs/sq ft or 200 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,89 - Longitudinal: 1,45 - Overall: 0,94 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather Б-проект: Displacement: 1 279 t light; 1 349 t standard; 1 411 t normal; 1 461 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (375,81 ft / 364,17 ft) x 26,25 ft x (9,84 / 10,13 ft) (114,55 m / 111,00 m) x 8,00 m x (3,00 / 3,09 m) Armament: 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 750 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 292 lbs / 132 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,347 t each, 8,079 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 165,35 lbs / 75,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 1,476 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,55" / 14 mm 0,39" / 10 mm - 2nd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,55" / 14 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 24 783 shp / 18 488 Kw = 31,50 kts Range 1 200nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 111 tons Complement: 114 - 149 Cost: £0,792 million / $3,166 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 75 tons, 5,3% - Guns: 57 tons, 4,1% - Weapons: 18 tons, 1,3% Armour: 16 tons, 1,1% - Armament: 15 tons, 1,0% - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 651 tons, 46,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 531 tons, 37,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 133 tons, 9,4% Miscellaneous weights: 5 tons, 0,4% - Hull below water: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 647 lbs / 293 Kg = 18,3 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08 Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,2 m Roll period: 12,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,66 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,22 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,525 / 0,528 Length to Beam Ratio: 13,88 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,23 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Average freeboard: 13,51 ft / 4,12 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 161,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116,1% Waterplane Area: 6 781 Square feet or 630 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91% Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 189 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,74 - Longitudinal: 2,37 - Overall: 0,83 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
von Echenbach: Возможно - повторение. Для "против фашистов" - у союзников новые "ключи". Просто варианты. Нет негодного Т-35 у германцев. А Т-39аи близок к "Ханту" с уменьшенной скоростью и дальностью - ибо и то, и то - не особо пригодилось в РеИ и при применении "послезнания" можно "чуть улучшить". То же к "Дейчланд"-"Шарнхорст" (аи) - Шарнгорст-шеер аи, аи Германия карманный ЛК laid down 1930 Barbette ship Displacement: 12 528 t light; 13 449 t standard; 15 834 t normal; 17 741 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (664,78 ft / 643,04 ft) x 59,06 ft x (26,25 / 28,69 ft) (202,62 m / 196,00 m) x 18,00 m x (8,00 / 8,75 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 50,0 cal guns - 709,07lbs / 321,63kg shells, 170 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1930 Model 2 x Triple mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft 1 x Triple mount on centreline, forward deck forward 12 - 0,47" / 12,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,05lbs / 0,02kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 raised mounts - superfiring 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 1,71lbs / 0,78kg shells, 150 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 6 396 lbs / 2 901 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,323 t each, 7,935 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 110,23 lbs / 50,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,492 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 314,96 ft / 96,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 0,79" / 20 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 131,23 ft / 40,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 75% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,65" / 16 mm 5,51" / 140 mm 2nd: 0,94" / 24 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - 3rd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Armoured deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 3,23" / 82 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,89" / 48 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,23" / 82 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 69 825 shp / 52 090 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 12 000nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4 292 tons Complement: 705 - 917 Cost: £5,018 million / $20,070 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 274 tons, 8,0% - Guns: 1 257 tons, 7,9% - Weapons: 16 tons, 0,1% Armour: 3 236 tons, 20,4% - Belts: 910 tons, 5,7% - Armament: 780 tons, 4,9% - Armour Deck: 1 502 tons, 9,5% - Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 2 116 tons, 13,4% Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 903 tons, 37,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 305 tons, 20,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 21 228 lbs / 9 629 Kg = 31,7 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16 Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 14,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,86 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,11 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,556 / 0,570 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,89 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 27,02 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 37,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 18,80 ft / 5,73 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,3% Waterplane Area: 27 311 Square feet or 2 537 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133% Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 713 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,19 - Longitudinal: 1,60 - Overall: 1,23 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Доведение до абсурда идеи "флотского малого миноносца - лидера ТКА" (в реале Т-35 миноносцы) аи Т-35 Шихау МН-ТКА, а Германия аи МН-ТКА laid down 1934 (1-3 105,3-4 37, 2х4 и 4х1 (по два ТА в носу с борта, вертикально расположена пара, т.о. с ТКА есть некоторое сходство идей) Displacement: 817 t light; 846 t standard; 913 t normal; 967 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (282,34 ft / 269,03 ft) x 26,25 ft x (9,84 / 10,24 ft) (86,06 m / 82,00 m) x 8,00 m x (3,00 / 3,12 m) Armament: 3 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 114 lbs / 52 kg Main Torpedoes 8 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,339 t each, 10,708 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes 2nd Torpedoes 4 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,339 t each, 5,354 t total In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 1,181 t total in Stern depth charge racks 2nd DC/AS Mortars 2 - 264,55 lbs / 120,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 1,181 t total in Depth charge throwers Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,35" / 9 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 2nd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,47" / 12 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22 966 shp / 17 133 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 1 600nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 121 tons Complement: 82 - 107 Cost: £0,491 million / $1,964 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 55 tons, 6,0% - Guns: 23 tons, 2,5% - Weapons: 31 tons, 3,4% Armour: 8 tons, 0,9% - Armament: 7 tons, 0,8% - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 469 tons, 51,4% Hull, fittings & equipment: 281 tons, 30,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 97 tons, 10,6% Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0,4% - Hull below water: 4 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 314 lbs / 143 Kg = 8,9 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28 Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m Roll period: 10,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,460 / 0,468 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,25 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18,77 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 41,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 14,09 ft / 4,29 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108,2% Waterplane Area: 4 719 Square feet or 438 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 66% Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 132 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,49 - Longitudinal: 4,01 - Overall: 0,61 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Идея "карманного авианосца" (ЛгКР-разведчик при рейдерской эскадре с функциями ЛгАВ) В носовой части ддвухэтажный ангар, две катапульты, Арадо-196 8-12ед, или + Fi-167?). Можно оставить только 2-4 самолета. Или принять возможность посадки запущенных самолетов на большой авианосец для заправки (при колесном варианте) в составе рейдерской эскадры: ЛК, КармЛК, АВ, 2 ЛгКР-разв/авТР, 2 ТР снабжения быстроходных. Метеор аи лгКР-рейдер ав разв, аи Германия КР-АВТР laid down 1934 Displacement: 6 641 t light; 6 962 t standard; 7 561 t normal; 8 040 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (496,71 ft / 482,28 ft) x 52,49 ft x (19,69 / 20,61 ft) (151,40 m / 147,00 m) x 16,00 m x (6,00 / 6,28 m) Armament: 6 - 5,91" / 150 mm 55,0 cal guns - 111,15lbs / 50,42kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model 3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 1 raised mount aft 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 450 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread Weight of broadside 965 lbs / 438 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,339 t each, 5,354 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 311,68 ft / 95,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 2,36" / 60 mm 311,68 ft / 95,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 99% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm 0,39" / 10 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 68 149 shp / 50 839 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 077 tons Complement: 405 - 527 Cost: £2,940 million / $11,758 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 295 tons, 3,9% - Guns: 283 tons, 3,7% - Weapons: 11 tons, 0,2% Armour: 1 483 tons, 19,6% - Belts: 597 tons, 7,9% - Armament: 125 tons, 1,6% - Armour Deck: 723 tons, 9,6% - Conning Towers: 39 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 961 tons, 25,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 832 tons, 37,5% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 920 tons, 12,2% Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 0,9% - Hull below water: 45 tons - Hull above water: 10 tons - On freeboard deck: 10 tons - Above deck: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 552 lbs / 4 333 Kg = 92,8 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13 Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 14,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,531 / 0,539 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,19 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,14 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,19 ft / 6,16 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161,8% Waterplane Area: 18 063 Square feet or 1 678 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119% Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 469 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,00 - Longitudinal: 2,47 - Overall: 1,10 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace
von Echenbach: Развитие крейсера-авианосца: отказ от 6" (15-см) артиллерии, продление полетной палубы на всю длину над ангаром. После рассмотрения проектов с выдвижными гидравлическими лифтами (сначала рассматривался проект с 4 устройствами - по два на борт, затем их количество уменьшилось до 2 - с одного борта в районе комплекса Управления "остров") стационарных, Остров и лифты вынесены на /вне правого борт. Авиагруппа: 18-30 самолета (6-12 истр (ИБ), 6-9 Т (Fi-167), 6-9 ПБ-Т Ju87MT). 8000т, 32 уз, 80-мм борт, 60 - палуба, по 8 127- и 100-мм. "Зееадлер" аи лёгкий рейдер-авиакрейсер, 1935 Displacement: 7 127 t light; 7 394 t standard; 8 015 t normal; 8 511 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (521,06 ft / 501,97 ft) x 55,77 ft x (19,69 / 20,57 ft) (158,82 m / 153,00 m) x 17,00 m x (6,00 / 6,27 m) Armament: 8 - 5,00" / 127 mm 45,0 cal guns - 63,03lbs / 28,59kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1934 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 55,0 cal guns - 38,13lbs / 17,29kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 822 lbs / 373 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 331,36 ft / 101,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 1,57" / 40 mm 331,36 ft / 101,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Main Belt covers 102% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,57" / 40 mm - - 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,15" / 80 mm, Aft 0,79" / 20 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 68 680 shp / 51 235 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 117 tons Complement: 423 - 550 Cost: £2,793 million / $11,171 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 162 tons, 2,0% - Guns: 162 tons, 2,0% Armour: 1 647 tons, 20,5% - Belts: 765 tons, 9,5% - Armament: 39 tons, 0,5% - Armour Deck: 808 tons, 10,1% - Conning Towers: 34 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 1 976 tons, 24,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 343 tons, 29,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 888 tons, 11,1% Miscellaneous weights: 1 000 tons, 12,5% - Hull below water: 600 tons - Hull above water: 200 tons - On freeboard deck: 50 tons - Above deck: 150 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 889 lbs / 4 486 Kg = 158,2 x 5,0 " / 127 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21 Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 13,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,14 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,44 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,509 / 0,517 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,75 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 23,49 ft / 7,16 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 202,3% Waterplane Area: 19 563 Square feet or 1 817 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114% Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 334 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,74 - Longitudinal: 2,41 - Overall: 0,84 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
von Echenbach: Быстроходная ПЛ типа аи "9-Б" для действий в составе крейсерского отряда, при быстроходных ТР снабжения и авианосной группе. Структура крейсерского отряда: 1. Группа тяжелых кораблей: ЛК, ТКР и 1 Лг.КР-разведчик, 2. группа легких кораблей: Авианосный крейсер, 1Лг.КР-разведчик, 2 быстроходных Транспорта, 2-4 ПЛ. Дополнительно прорабатывалась возможность снабжения с применением подводных транспортов.
Пан директор: von Echenbach пишет: Структура крейсерского отряда: 1. Группа тяжелых кораблей: ЛК, ТКР и 1 Лг.КР-разведчик, 2. группа легких кораблей: Авианосный крейсер, 1Лг.КР-разведчик, 2 быстроходных Транспорта, 2-4 ПЛ. Дополнительно прорабатывалась возможность снабжения с применением подводных транспортов. Таким бы хлебальцем да медку бы хлебнуть. В реальности немцы для таких действий имели один тяжелый корабль плюс немного эсминцев. Пока Гитлер не запретил выпускать тяжелые корабли в море.
von Echenbach: Пан директор пишет: В реальности - объективная реальность дана нам в ... :-) М.б. германцам не стоило "бисмарки" делать?
von Echenbach: Плавучий носовой составной отсек для прорывания минных заграждений, стыкуется с носом ТР-КР или иного плавсредства. до 200 т, 16х12х6 (размеры могут изменяться), много отсеков с наполнением водовытесняющими материалами. В носу - выдвижной аналог щитового трала (имущество надо беречь) с растяжками параван-охранителя шириной до 16-20 м. Время стыковки-расцепления - до 15-20 мин.
Пан директор: Как только погода испортится или скорость поднимется - его оторвет
von Echenbach: Пан директор пишет: его оторвет Мда уж... вот ведь реализм образовался. 2-3 типо-размера, для опасных вод вблизи баз или в прибрежной зоне. 1. Эластичный вариант крепления и ограничение по скорости. 2. При шторме - на буксир судна обеспечения. 3. Можно и систему Фойта-Шнейдера поставить на больших, ибо более пары десятков такого "эксклюзива" не будет.
von Echenbach: Противоминный понтон (баржа-плашкоут-прам), можно устанавливать орудия - как плавбатарея БО или ПВО. laid down 1938 Displacement: 506 t light; 516 t standard; 519 t normal; 521 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (78,25 ft / 75,46 ft) x 39,37 ft x (13,12 / 13,16 ft) (23,85 m / 23,00 m) x 12,00 m x (4,00 / 4,01 m) Armament: 1 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal gun - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 450 per gun Machine gun in deck mount, 1938 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg Machinery: Petrol Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 154 shp / 115 Kw = 5,00 kts Range 120nm at 2,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 5 tons Complement: 53 - 70 Cost: £0,103 million / $0,413 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 0 tons, 0,0% - Guns: 0 tons, 0,0% Machinery: 4 tons, 0,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 442 tons, 85,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 13 tons, 2,5% Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 11,6% - Hull below water: 50 tons - Hull above water: 5 tons - On freeboard deck: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 3 915 lbs / 1 776 Kg = 36,3 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 4,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,98 Metacentric height 3,7 ft / 1,1 m Roll period: 8,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,466 / 0,467 Length to Beam Ratio: 1,92 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 12,11 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m - Average freeboard: 7,60 ft / 2,32 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 16,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 47,1% Waterplane Area: 1 996 Square feet or 185 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 755% Structure weight / hull surface area: 159 lbs/sq ft or 778 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 3,42 - Longitudinal: 54,57 - Overall: 4,51 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: Некоторая аи-ретроспектива: 1. Тирпиц более ранее в отставке. Кто мог заменить его и переработать теорию "рассчитанного риска"? 2. Германцы перешли на большие калибры после появления Дредноута, отказ от экономии (из пп1): возможно сразу на 350 (360) и 400 (430) -мм. Пересмотр значения и необходимости СК на ЛК. 3. В период перехода (пп2) на новые модели орудий и кораблей, Нассау и Блюхер сохранены РИ) развиваются "океанские" крейсера: а) инвариант "карманных линкоров"(3-4х2 280, 26-28 уз, до 6000-9000 миль дальность), б) набеговые противоэскортные/противокрейсерские корабли: 280 или 305 -мм ГК 3-4х2? Или 4х2 210-мм? Для "экономии" м.б. 3х2 305-мм... эдакий мини-Конго/Лайон без носовой возвышенной башни. Какими могли быть "Шарнхорсты" аи-1 МВ?
von Echenbach: аи Шархорст-1909 laid down 1909 Displacement: 16 398 t light; 17 215 t standard; 19 665 t normal; 21 625 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (610,56 ft / 597,11 ft) x 75,46 ft x (26,25 / 28,37 ft) (186,10 m / 182,00 m) x 23,00 m x (8,00 / 8,65 m) Armament: 6 - 12,01" / 305 mm 54,0 cal guns - 931,29lbs / 422,42kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 1 raised mount aft 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 170 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread Weight of broadside 6 141 lbs / 2 786 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 301,84 ft / 92,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 6,30" / 160 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 32,81 ft / 10,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 78% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 12,6" / 320 mm 2nd: 1,26" / 32 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 9,45" / 240 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 59 899 shp / 44 684 Kw = 27,00 kts Range 7 800nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4 410 tons Complement: 829 - 1 079 Cost: £1,608 million / $6,431 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 565 tons, 8,0% - Guns: 1 565 tons, 8,0% Armour: 5 761 tons, 29,3% - Belts: 2 277 tons, 11,6% - Armament: 1 287 tons, 6,5% - Armour Deck: 2 048 tons, 10,4% - Conning Tower: 148 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 2 723 tons, 13,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 350 tons, 32,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 267 tons, 16,6% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 27 288 lbs / 12 378 Kg = 31,5 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10 Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 16,0 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,72 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,18 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,582 / 0,592 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,91 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,15 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 40,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 25,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,11 ft / 6,44 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,5% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158,6% Waterplane Area: 33 759 Square feet or 3 136 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113% Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 698 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,95 - Longitudinal: 1,58 - Overall: 1,00 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: 1. Пошлифовал проект крейсеров "К". 4х2 150/50, 4х2 88, 8 37, 2х3 ТА, 29 уз, броня 90-30 мм. альт Кельн-2, альт Герм альт ЛгКР laid down 1928 Displacement: 5 050 t light; 5 294 t standard; 6 032 t normal; 6 623 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (494,59 ft / 479,00 ft) x 49,21 ft x (16,40 / 17,62 ft) (150,75 m / 146,00 m) x 15,00 m x (5,00 / 5,37 m) Armament: 8 - 5,98" / 152 mm 50,0 cal guns - 113,44lbs / 51,45kg shells, 170 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1928 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 088 lbs / 493 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,508 t each, 9,050 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 239,50 ft / 73,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 77% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 2nd: 0,71" / 18 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric motors, 3 shafts, 35 164 shp / 26 232 Kw = 28,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 328 tons Complement: 341 - 444 Cost: £1,658 million / $6,634 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 337 tons, 5,6% - Guns: 319 tons, 5,3% - Weapons: 18 tons, 0,3% Armour: 1 561 tons, 25,9% - Belts: 614 tons, 10,2% - Armament: 227 tons, 3,8% - Armour Deck: 687 tons, 11,4% - Conning Towers: 34 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 1 095 tons, 18,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 057 tons, 34,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 983 tons, 16,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 412 lbs / 4 269 Kg = 87,8 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06 Metacentric height 1,9 ft / 0,6 m Roll period: 14,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,79 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,62 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,546 / 0,558 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,73 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,90 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 37,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,73 ft / 6,32 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185,1% Waterplane Area: 17 062 Square feet or 1 585 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127% Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 360 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,80 - Longitudinal: 2,20 - Overall: 0,88 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather 2. Модернизация шнельботов: а) 4 ТА, спаренные вертикально в носу, + две запасные торпеды. б) большой катер- малый миноносец: 120-160 т, 33-34 уз, 8 торпедных труб - 2 спаренные в носу, две спаренные установки - по миделю. 3-4 20-мм, 2 37-мм, м.б. замена-добавление 1 37-мм на 1 (??? 2) 88. ГК в основном традиционно - в корме. Ваше мнение -?
Пан директор: Кто его только не шлифовал http://skb-86.awardspace.biz/eva.htm
Пан директор: von Echenbach пишет: альт Кельн-2, альт Герм альт ЛгКР laid down 1928 28 узлов и 90-мм брони - Ок! Продолжаем идеологию бронированного лидера! Броня вместо скорости и вместо пушек Как насчёт булей?
Пан директор: По-поводу больших катеров - смотри немецкие раумботы серии R301 Раумботы
von Echenbach: Пан директор пишет: раумботы серии R301 Все они медленные, против MG and SG слабы или опоздали. Тральщики М тоже медленные. В прикрытии конвоев действия немецких эскортных сил в Канале вызывают, по описаниям, смешанное впечатление: часто некоторая неорганизованность или растерянность при активных атаках английских москитов. Пан директор пишет: 28 узлов и 90-мм брони - Ок! Продолжаем идеологию бронированного лидера! Броня вместо скорости и вместо пушек Как насчёт булей? Считал шарпием, були принял за излишество, но добавить можно. М.Б. "слоистые" конструкции борта-встроенная ПТЗ - наружный отсек заполнен пенобетоном (вектор силы повреждения м.б. направлен вверх, по слабейшему сопротивлению), следующий вглубь отсек,- расширительная камера, далее -топливный и фильтрационная переборка (может быть выполнена из броневой стал-мягкой?). Собственно корпус делится на три продольных главных отсека, в центральных погреба и одна из турбин + часть котлов. Особо большая скорость для эскорта ЛК - конвоя в зоне действия 50-300 миль от берега не так уж и нужна. Количество орудий по сравнению с реальным проектом уменьшено на 1. Повышение калибра ГК при предназначении действия против ЭМ и КР представляется необоснованным. ЗА аи Кельн-Ева можно довести до 5-7х2 88 или даже 105 -мм. На корме возможно предусмотреть размещение 1-3 гидросамолётов.
von Echenbach: альт Гейзенау, альт Герм альт ЛК-рейдер laid down 1935 Два ГК - сомнительная идея, но м.б. пройдёт. Displacement: 25 649 t light; 27 471 t standard; 29 221 t normal; 30 621 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (658,97 ft / 629,92 ft) x 93,83 ft x (29,53 / 30,65 ft) (200,85 m / 192,00 m) x 28,60 m x (9,00 / 9,34 m) Armament: 6 - 14,96" / 380 mm 50,0 cal guns - 1 772,42lbs / 803,96kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 6 - 11,02" / 280 mm 50,0 cal guns - 709,07lbs / 321,63kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount - superfiring 24 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 raised mounts - superfiring 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 raised mounts - superfiring 12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 750 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 15 763 lbs / 7 150 kg Main DC/AS Mortars 4 - 196,21 lbs / 89,00 kg Depth Charges + 16 reloads - 1,752 t total in Depth charge throwers Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 354,33 ft / 108,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 87% of normal length Main Belt inclined 16,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 12,6" / 320 mm 2nd: 11,0" / 280 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 11,8" / 300 mm 3rd: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,47" / 12 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 4th: 0,35" / 9 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,35" / 85 mm Forecastle: 1,38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 2,17" / 55 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,87" / 200 mm, Aft 2,36" / 60 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 114 066 shp / 85 093 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 5 600nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3 150 tons Complement: 1 116 - 1 452 Cost: £14,952 million / $59,808 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 3 629 tons, 12,4% - Guns: 3 626 tons, 12,4% - Weapons: 3 tons, 0,0% Armour: 9 152 tons, 31,3% - Belts: 3 388 tons, 11,6% - Armament: 2 993 tons, 10,2% - Armour Deck: 2 562 tons, 8,8% - Conning Towers: 209 tons, 0,7% Machinery: 3 241 tons, 11,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 627 tons, 32,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 572 tons, 12,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 31 610 lbs / 14 338 Kg = 18,9 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 3,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07 Metacentric height 5,2 ft / 1,6 m Roll period: 17,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,586 / 0,592 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,71 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 29,31 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 39,37 ft / 12,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Average freeboard: 27,05 ft / 8,25 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 196,2% Waterplane Area: 44 455 Square feet or 4 130 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95% Structure weight / hull surface area: 176 lbs/sq ft or 858 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,77 - Longitudinal: 2,03 - Overall: 0,85 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Дополнение: По некоторому размышлению обнаружилось, сто проект альт-Гнейзенау сходен с проектом нашей ув. Заиньки с названием "Махайрод". Вот. ГК можно рвзнести, с возвышенными 2-й ГК, и даже добавить по мидель пару башен "2 ГК" с доведением бортового залпа "2 ГК" до 8 (4х2)-12 (4х3) и ГК 1 до 6 (3х2/2х3 или 9 (3х3). В любом случае - рейдер. Или корабль поддержки линейных-легких сил. Антагонизм функций - кажущийся, ибо предназначен корабль проекта для борьбы с тяжелыми кораблями прикрытия или подавления крейсерско-миноносных сил. Неплохо выглядит в связке с авиакрейсером (разведка, частично ПЛО-ПВО и немного ударные функции. И, как всегда - универсал несовершенен. Следующая сентенция: нет в мире совершенства/...если нет гербовой бумаги.../надо попробовать. Самое же идейное содержание темы - в попытке найти альт. тактику, и только потом - альт. проекты кораблей для германцев. Для 1, отчасти - 2 МВ а аи игре на первый план выходят действия в океане (или блиц-десант на остров). Для 2 мв влияют более совершенные приборы связи-обнаружения и другие технические факторы (Авиация, ПЛ). Вероятно, для германцев в аи следует перейти от действий набором отрядов в "сети" движений по решению последовательностей тактических задач, к системе "наборов прото-Лего" - комбинация тактических и обеспечивающих отрядов. По уровню развития экономики сложно довести эти маневренные оперативные группы до состояния ри американских ударных флотских групп или английских оперативных "ударных сил".
von Echenbach: Германская версия морских мониторов - см. историю Террор, Сульт и пр. Даный проект предназначался для применения модернизированных установок ГК (повышенная скорострельность до 4 в/мин и ускорение горизонтальной наводки), поддержка береговой обороны баз, учебные мероприятия и отработка технологий. Для условий Версаля - как самоходные плавбатареи. Официальная скорость на 1 дизеле - 6-7 уз. Реальное предназначение - корабли поддержки и прикрытия десанта. аи ббо плавбат х-бр Кайзер, аи Германия аи т бр кл laid down 1924 Displacement: 7 097 t light; 7 437 t standard; 7 545 t normal; 7 632 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (344,70 ft / 331,36 ft) x 65,62 ft x (19,69 / 21,48 ft) (105,07 m / 101,00 m) x 20,00 m x (6,00 / 6,55 m) Armament: 6 - 9,45" / 240 mm 40,0 cal guns - 404,25lbs / 183,37kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 raised mounts 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 450 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 2 717 lbs / 1 232 kg Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 8,19" / 208 mm 98,43 ft / 30,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 7,09" / 180 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 36,09 ft / 11,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 46% of normal length Main Belt inclined 17,00 degrees (positive = in) - Hull void: 0,16" / 4 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 10,2" / 260 mm 2nd: 1,26" / 32 mm 0,47" / 12 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 3rd: 0,47" / 12 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 4,72" / 120 mm Forecastle: 2,36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 8,66" / 220 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 6 703 shp / 5 001 Kw = 15,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 194 tons Complement: 404 - 526 Cost: £1,531 million / $6,122 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 657 tons, 8,7% - Guns: 656 tons, 8,7% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 3 186 tons, 42,2% - Belts: 982 tons, 13,0% - Void: 20 tons, 0,3% - Armament: 742 tons, 9,8% - Armour Deck: 1 370 tons, 18,2% - Conning Tower: 72 tons, 1,0% Machinery: 221 tons, 2,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 033 tons, 40,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 448 tons, 5,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 16 727 lbs / 7 587 Kg = 39,7 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 4,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03 Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 16,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,54 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,27 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,617 / 0,572 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,05 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,76 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 11,39 ft / 3,47 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 37,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78,2% Waterplane Area: 16 845 Square feet or 1 565 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133% Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 768 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,13 - Longitudinal: 2,55 - Overall: 1,22 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily Нечто подобное могли применить и при "Тирпиц-блицкриг" при высадке в Англию, гипотетическую пока.
von Echenbach: Очередная версия "Кельна": Крейсер-разведчик, с уменьшенной толщиной броневого пояса до 60-30 мм и возрастанием скорости до 30 уз. ДУ ТЗА и средний вал - электродвигатель. Северный лис, аи Германия аи лг кр малый-развед laid down 1932 Displacement: 4 412 t light; 4 635 t standard; 4 878 t normal; 5 073 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (476,36 ft / 452,76 ft) x 42,65 ft x (16,40 / 16,89 ft) (145,20 m / 138,00 m) x 13,00 m x (5,00 / 5,15 m) Armament: 8 - 5,91" / 150 mm 50,0 cal guns - 109,02lbs / 49,45kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 136 lbs / 515 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,524 t each, 9,146 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 154,32 lbs / 70,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,689 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 301,84 ft / 92,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 19,69 ft / 6,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 103% of normal length Main Belt inclined 13,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 40 996 shp / 30 583 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 437 tons Complement: 291 - 379 Cost: £1,948 million / $7,793 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 340 tons, 7,0% - Guns: 320 tons, 6,6% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,4% Armour: 1 020 tons, 20,9% - Belts: 343 tons, 7,0% - Armament: 88 tons, 1,8% - Armour Deck: 568 tons, 11,6% - Conning Towers: 22 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 210 tons, 24,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 842 tons, 37,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 467 tons, 9,6% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 5 506 lbs / 2 498 Kg = 53,5 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04 Metacentric height 1,5 ft / 0,5 m Roll period: 14,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,86 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,539 / 0,544 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,62 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,07 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 33,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 43,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,64 ft / 5,07 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,5% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,5% Waterplane Area: 13 883 Square feet or 1 290 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110% Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 408 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,99 - Longitudinal: 1,98 - Overall: 1,06 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room И вариации на тему "Бруммер"- "Красный Кавказ" (тени "Фробишера-Хоукинса): 4х1 203 (аи автомат заряжания, 10 выстрелов в минуту). Скорость снижена до 29 уз. Возможна установка булей. Хеймдаль-2, аи Германия аи кр малый-развед laid down 1934 Displacement: 4 748 t light; 4 997 t standard; 5 254 t normal; 5 459 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (478,49 ft / 452,76 ft) x 45,93 ft x (16,40 / 16,85 ft) (145,84 m / 138,00 m) x 14,00 m x (5,00 / 5,14 m) Armament: 4 - 7,99" / 203 mm 50,0 cal guns - 270,21lbs / 122,57kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 345 lbs / 610 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,524 t each, 9,146 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 154,32 lbs / 70,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,689 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 301,84 ft / 92,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 19,69 ft / 6,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 103% of normal length Main Belt inclined 13,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 37 635 shp / 28 076 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 462 tons Complement: 308 - 401 Cost: £2,034 million / $8,137 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 400 tons, 7,6% - Guns: 381 tons, 7,3% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,4% Armour: 1 065 tons, 20,3% - Belts: 345 tons, 6,6% - Armament: 86 tons, 1,6% - Armour Deck: 611 tons, 11,6% - Conning Towers: 23 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 1 111 tons, 21,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 172 tons, 41,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 505 tons, 9,6% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 6 813 lbs / 3 090 Kg = 26,7 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05 Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m Roll period: 14,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,85 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,13 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,539 / 0,545 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,86 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,20 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 33,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 43,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,63 ft / 5,37 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146,0% Waterplane Area: 14 951 Square feet or 1 389 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117% Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 460 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,05 - Longitudinal: 2,28 - Overall: 1,14 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Тяжелые крейсера: 1-й проект: близок к классическому "Хиппер". 2-й проект: аи микст Карманного ЛК и корпуса Хиппер аи. Отказ от 280-мм артиллерии. Возвращение к 240-мм. Проводились дискуссии по выбору линейки калибров: предлагалось: 30-60- (доп 90 или 105) - 120 - (доп 150 - 180) - 240 (280 ???) - 360 - м.б. 420 ? Адмиралы (с 4х2 203, 30 уз. 6 ед) + 3 ед: Носорог (Слон, Буйвол), аи Германия аи тг кр рейдер laid down 1928-36 Displacement: 9 346 t light; 9 840 t standard; 10 873 t normal; 11 699 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (576,92 ft / 551,18 ft) x 55,77 ft x (22,97 / 24,36 ft) (175,84 m / 168,00 m) x 17,00 m x (7,00 / 7,42 m) Armament: 6 - 9,45" / 240 mm 50,0 cal guns - 446,53lbs / 202,54kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 943 lbs / 1 335 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,524 t each, 9,146 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 154,32 lbs / 70,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,689 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 301,84 ft / 92,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 118,11 ft / 36,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 84% of normal length Main Belt inclined 13,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 54 895 shp / 40 952 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 6 200nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 859 tons Complement: 532 - 692 Cost: £3,844 million / $15,375 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 891 tons, 8,2% - Guns: 872 tons, 8,0% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,2% Armour: 1 869 tons, 17,2% - Belts: 653 tons, 6,0% - Armament: 276 tons, 2,5% - Armour Deck: 904 tons, 8,3% - Conning Towers: 37 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 1 620 tons, 14,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 965 tons, 45,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 527 tons, 14,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 14 498 lbs / 6 576 Kg = 34,4 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03 Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 15,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,86 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,539 / 0,547 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,88 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 26,70 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 33,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 43,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,63 ft / 5,37 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,4% Waterplane Area: 22 102 Square feet or 2 053 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138% Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 754 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,37 - Longitudinal: 2,08 - Overall: 1,43 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Немного иллюстраций: 1. аи Т КР с 3х2 240 (из ШипБакет) - здесь как Носорог. 2. Древняя моя схема аи Кельн-2 к 1 МВ с 4х2 8". Почти то же для нового проекта.
von Echenbach: Освежим тему ;-) Германцы решили своим сумрачным гением пере-мудрить японцев. Попался кто-то ясновидящий чуть-чуть в кораблях - если не ясновидящий, тогда ув. коллеги укажут на "слабые звенья": Проект "броненосца" (т.ск. "карманного линкора") сделали с небольшим запасом, утолстили броню и предусмотрели возможность усиления ГК путем установки в каждой башне третьего орудия. Схема - ретирадная, 3х2 (при модернизации 3х3) 283/45-50. Скорее - /45. Похож на рис. ТКР выше см "Носорог". Но без СК. Универсальные 8х2 88 (позднее - 8х2 105), 2х3 ТА на корме + катапульта и 3-6 гидросамолетов. От самолетов можно и отказаться. "радости" - за счёт снижения дальности, что восполняется при модернизации установкой булей. laid down 1927 Displacement: 13 731 t light; 14 664 t standard; 15 765 t normal; 16 645 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (620,88 ft / 600,39 ft) x 72,18 ft x (23,62 / 24,61 ft) (189,24 m / 183,00 m) x 22,00 m x (7,20 / 7,50 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 675,51lbs / 306,40kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 16 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 6 650 lbs / 3 016 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,504 t each, 9,026 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 295,28 ft / 90,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 75,46 ft / 23,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 76% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 8,27" / 210 mm 5,51" / 140 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm 0,39" / 10 mm - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 2,36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 5,51" / 140 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 59 000 shp / 44 014 Kw = 28,00 kts Range 6 600nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 981 tons Complement: 703 - 914 Cost: £4,861 million / $19,443 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 489 tons, 9,4% - Guns: 1 470 tons, 9,3% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 4 143 tons, 26,3% - Belts: 1 126 tons, 7,1% - Armament: 1 002 tons, 6,4% - Armour Deck: 1 940 tons, 12,3% - Conning Tower: 75 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 862 tons, 11,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 088 tons, 38,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 033 tons, 12,9% Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1,0% - Hull below water: 120 tons - Hull above water: 20 tons - On freeboard deck: 10 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 22 866 lbs / 10 372 Kg = 34,1 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06 Metacentric height 3,5 ft / 1,1 m Roll period: 16,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,98 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,539 / 0,546 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,32 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,25 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 32,81 ft / 10,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Aft deck: 37,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,87 ft / 6,36 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165,2% Waterplane Area: 31 156 Square feet or 2 894 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115% Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs/sq ft or 722 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,95 - Longitudinal: 1,65 - Overall: 1,01 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
von Echenbach: Обеспечение "Зеелеве": Минные буксируемые связки с погруженными понтонами-МЗ с интервалом в 7-10-15 м. Общее количество7-9 в "обойме". глубина - от 1,5 м до 5-6 м. Буксируются катерами, ТЩ или ПЛ - версия "подвижной минной обороны", "мобильный минный барраж". Катера и ТЩ прикрываются МН и авиацией. Дополняется комплектом рубежей ПЛ и потоком ТР и десантными кораблями: катера, баржи, плашкоуты. Зоны высадки: Гастингс - Веймут, как зона приманки-отвлечения: Ярмут-Харвич? Может сгодиться и для идей аи- 1 МВ. Коллеги, по возможности, поделитесь ссылками на возможные планы англичан по отражению десанта. Макси есть.
von Echenbach: "японские" ... мотивы: или м.б. предвоплощение японской идеи перевооружения. !927... закладка тяжелых рейдеров с дизельной СУ. 1000 т, 28 уз. 54-56 000 л.с. - 3 винта, 12 000 миль на 16 уз. 3х2 6" линейно-возвышенно в носу. 1х3 280 за носовыми 6". В корме - 2ж2 (одна возвышенно) и 4х2 (по 2 на борт) за полубаком в корму - 105 (м.б. первые стабилизированные...). 12 37-мм МЗА по 6 на борт (в планах 12х2). 2х3 533 ТА на корме. 10 ГБ для "отпугивания". Бронирование: борт 30-12-, палуба 30-64, барбеты - 240, башни: 240 (лоб)-120 (бок)-60 (верх), но... с 1929 года идет неспешная постройка. И в 1931 - в строю. А в 1936-39 - перевооружение на 3х3 (заменяются носовые 150-мм) - микро-Родней, с немецким акцентом. laid down 1929 Проект нуждается в доработке... но - собственно идея. Displacement: 11 173 t light; 12 161 t standard; 14 648 t normal; 16 637 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (622,85 ft / 597,11 ft) x 75,46 ft x (19,69 / 21,85 ft) (189,84 m / 182,00 m) x 23,00 m x (6,00 / 6,66 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 50,0 cal guns - 709,07lbs / 321,63kg shells, 170 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1929 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 1 raised mount 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount - superfiring 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 6 828 lbs / 3 097 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,512 t each, 9,074 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 351,05 ft / 107,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 206,69 ft / 63,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 39,37 ft / 12,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 90% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 9,45" / 240 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm - 3rd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 2,01" / 51 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 58 253 shp / 43 456 Kw = 28,00 kts Range 12 000nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4 477 tons Complement: 665 - 865 Cost: £5,303 million / $21,211 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 694 tons, 11,6% - Guns: 1 675 tons, 11,4% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 3 995 tons, 27,3% - Belts: 1 062 tons, 7,3% - Armament: 1 358 tons, 9,3% - Armour Deck: 1 499 tons, 10,2% - Conning Towers: 76 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 789 tons, 12,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 695 tons, 25,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 475 tons, 23,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 13 991 lbs / 6 346 Kg = 20,9 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17 Metacentric height 4,4 ft / 1,3 m Roll period: 15,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,82 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,16 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,578 / 0,591 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,91 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,17 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 33,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 42,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 28,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,94 ft / 6,38 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 192,9% Waterplane Area: 33 630 Square feet or 3 124 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104% Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 476 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,61 - Longitudinal: 0,99 - Overall: 0,64 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: По тактике: где-то уже ранее предлагал. Лениво искать... :-) В дополнение к имеющимся в наличии РИ составу к выходу на перехват "рождественского"/ у м. Нордкап (26 декабря 1943) и "новогоднему" (з1 декабря 1942) конвоям/боёв - добавляем по 1 легкому крейсеру. И немного переигрываем с локализацией-распределением ЭМ. И лгКр естесс-сссс-твенно. 1. а. Шланге выходит " безбоязненно" на конвой или б. ЛгКР атакует конвой. в. - ЛгКр и пара ЭМ встречают крейсера Беннета. 2. а. Легкие силы прорываются к конвою. б. Легкие силы связывают крейсера англичан, в. Крейсер Лг.: 1) обнаруживает соединение Беннета (и получает "плюшки" вместо Шарнхорста), 2) с парой ЭМ обнаруживают подходящее соединение Фрезера и облегчает положение Бея.
von Echenbach: Каким образом могли бы противодействовать немцам в случае организации системного, т.е. организованного (почти систематического) подавления дозоров в северных проливах Атлантики? Удары ПЛ в сочетании с набегами групп ТКР (в т.ч. и броненосцы-карманные лк) с ЛгКР для отвлечения патрулей и облегчения прорывов рейдеров в океан. О! В некотором роде юбилейная заметка... особенно на фоне "почти молчания" коллег.
von Echenbach: Немного о возможном супер-карманном линкоре: Попались на Shipbucket картинки о межвоенном немецком судостроении, в т.с. и мониторы в 10000 т с 356-350-380-мм ГК. А если... расчет корабля сделать на 14-16 000 т с официальным "10 000" т и вооружение в 1х3 в корме 283-мм и 2х3 150-мм ( архитектура Кельн), защита 120-90-60-30 мм. Скорость - 28-30 уз СУ: смешанная - 2 вала на турбинах и 2 вала на дизелях (дизель-электрические системы). При отмене ограничений проводят модернизацию до 3х3 283-мм и 6х2 105-мм. Этакий вариант легкого линейного крейсера-рейдера.
von Echenbach: А если... германцам строить ТКР по образу архитектуры-компоновке ЛгКР типа "К"? Какие ваши варианты, ув. коллеги?
Пан директор: von Echenbach пишет: А если... германцам строить ТКР по образу архитектуры-компоновке ЛгКР типа "К"? Уже. http://skb-86.awardspace.biz/eva.htm
dr5r: von Echenbach пишет: ЛгКР оснастить булями и усилить ПВО Баян. Увенчалось успехом на Нюрнберге, остальные так и сохранили свою картонную конструкцию.
von Echenbach: Ещё одна вариация проекта "Нарвик": laid down 1935 Displacement: 3 080 t light; 3 206 t standard; 3 336 t normal; 3 439 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (436,58 ft / 416,67 ft) x 36,09 ft x (15,75 / 16,10 ft) (133,07 m / 127,00 m) x 11,00 m x (4,80 / 4,91 m) Armament: 6 - 5,91" / 150 mm 45,0 cal guns - 103,86lbs / 47,11kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 1 raised mount aft 4 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 707 lbs / 321 kg Main Torpedoes 8 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,536 t each, 12,290 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 114,64 lbs / 52,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 1,024 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 0,71" / 18 mm 216,54 ft / 66,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 80% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,47" / 12 mm - 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,35" / 9 mm - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 0,71" / 18 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,71" / 18 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 54 182 shp / 40 420 Kw = 34,00 kts Range 2 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 234 tons Complement: 219 - 285 Cost: £1,789 million / $7,157 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 149 tons, 4,5% - Guns: 123 tons, 3,7% - Weapons: 26 tons, 0,8% Armour: 203 tons, 6,1% - Belts: 63 tons, 1,9% - Armament: 18 tons, 0,5% - Armour Deck: 118 tons, 3,5% - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 1 501 tons, 45,0% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 228 tons, 36,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 255 tons, 7,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 1 715 lbs / 778 Kg = 16,6 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17 Metacentric height 1,4 ft / 0,4 m Roll period: 12,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,493 / 0,497 Length to Beam Ratio: 11,55 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 23,06 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 15,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 32,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,60 ft / 5,06 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 155,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,8% Waterplane Area: 10 351 Square feet or 962 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93% Structure weight / hull surface area: 61 lbs/sq ft or 299 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,84 - Longitudinal: 2,80 - Overall: 0,95 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room С 3х2 (ранее указанное 2х3 - опечатка) 150 в корме,2х2 88 и 2х4 та вполне помещается в реального Нарвика с разменом 2-3 узлов скорости на дополнительное 150-мм орудие, 4 88 и прикрытие зоны кмо 18 мм бортом с карапасной палубой над погребами и кмо 18 мм.
dr5r: von Echenbach пишет: расчет корабля сделать на 14-16 000 т с официальным "10 000" т и вооружение в 1х3 в корме 283-мм и 2х3 150-мм ( архитектура Кельн), защита 120-90-60-30 мм. Скорость - 28-30 уз СУ: смешанная - 2 вала на турбинах и 2 вала на дизелях (дизель-электрические системы). При отмене ограничений проводят модернизацию до 3х3 283-мм и 6х2 105-мм. Я бы скорее поверил в 1х2 28.3 +... с заменой избыточно крупных (тм) башен 2х2 14.9 на 2х2 28.3. Дизель-электро в данном случае, имхо, избыточна, хватило бы и обычной гидрозубчатой передачи а-ля реальные Дойчланды. Также моторные рассуждения: зачем 4 вала, когда хватит 3? центральный "дизельный", он же крейсерского хода ВРШ, 4 дизеля через ГЗП дадут около 24 килопоней на валу, это для корпуса, близкого к реальному карманнику, вырисовывается в 22-23 узла оперативного хода ("паровые" винты докручивать механической трансмиссией либо от утилизационных котлов). По остальному. 6 спарок 10.5 -- вполне. Как у реального -- торпеды в бронеящик на корму, но как у нереального -- пару скоростных гидросамолётов на бортовые катапульты. Либо катапульта одна и ангар-"штаны" с резервными ГС в районе ростров и с длинным "перекидным" краном, чтоб зениткам не мешал.
von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: Я бы скорее поверил в 1х2 28.3 +... с заменой избыточно крупных (тм) башен 2х2 14.9 на 2х2 28.3. Дизель-электро в данном случае, имхо, избыточна, хватило бы и обычной гидрозубчатой передачи а-ля реальные Дойчланды. На 14-16 000 т и у реального КармЛК имелось 2х3 28,3. М.б. в аи проекте с 3х2 28,3 будет лучше расположена более лучшая/эффективная СУ наряду с усилением защиты? С наличием 3х3 28,3, проект предположительно переходит в более весомую категорию кораблей, возможно как аналогия с лёгкими линейными крейсерами ( лг Лг-ЛнКР ;-) ) или ЛК 2-3 класса. Нельзя исключить и такого, относительного фактора влияния на тактику - как следствие снижения числа ЛК по договорам 1920-22 и пр., и на смещение условных функций замещения позиции ЛК на ТКР при факте отсутствия ЛК с составе встретившихся отрядов\эскадр противников.
von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: ибо катапульта одна и ангар ГС - пару в поход с приспособленным краном вполне целесообразно. Большее количество авиации возможно приведет к созданию специализированного носителя в виде: 1. всп. КР-авиаТр или 2. на основании проекта ЛгКР -всп\лг АвКР (Эмден переделать можно) на 6-12 самолетов (Арадо-196 довести до состояния ближнего истребителя или\и торпедоносца) с катапультой.
dr5r: 196? нереально имхо
von Echenbach: ТТЭ - http://www.airwar.ru/enc/sww2/ar196.html dr5r пишет: нереально Если очень надо :-) 1. Истребитель: 4х1 20 в крыльях. Высший пилотаж ограничен. 2. Торпедоносец: 2 пулемёта 7,9 \нос-хвост\, 1 торпеда 380-450 массой\весом 600-800 кг ( 5-7 каб 35-40 уз, БЧ 100-80 кг). Всем: мотор - до 1200 лс - скорость до 300-400, дальность - до 300-500 км. Другое - ?
von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: Я бы скорее поверил в 1х2 28.3 +... с заменой избыточно крупных (тм) башен 2х2 14.9 на 2х2 28.3. Примерил эффект появления подобного проекта/корабля... близок к ТКР, но очень мало стволов в залпе ГК и, как следствие - малая вероятность попаданий на больших дистанциях. Против ЛгКР может неплохо действовать, м.б. с заменой 2х2 на 2х3 150. И провести в категории ЛгКР-разведчиков\лидеров. Уже не рейдер. В 6-8 000 т. Висбаден аи лгкр laid down 1930 Displacement: 5 513 t light; 5 851 t standard; 6 281 t normal; 6 625 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (465,29 ft / 442,91 ft) x 57,41 ft x (16,40 / 17,07 ft) (141,82 m / 135,00 m) x 17,50 m x (5,00 / 5,20 m) Armament: 2 - 11,14" / 283 mm 55,0 cal guns - 746,46lbs / 338,59kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1930 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 6 - 5,91" / 150 mm 50,0 cal guns - 109,02lbs / 49,45kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft 8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 300 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck centre 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 700 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 321 lbs / 1 053 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,516 t each, 9,098 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 110,23 lbs / 50,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,492 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 0,79" / 20 mm 98,43 ft / 30,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 114% of normal length Main Belt inclined 9,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 3,15" / 80 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,87" / 22 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 0,79" / 20 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, plus diesel motors, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 48 996 shp / 36 551 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 4 400nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 774 tons Complement: 352 - 458 Cost: £2,712 million / $10,849 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 669 tons, 10,6% - Guns: 650 tons, 10,3% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,3% Armour: 1 199 tons, 19,1% - Belts: 459 tons, 7,3% - Armament: 232 tons, 3,7% - Armour Deck: 486 tons, 7,7% - Conning Towers: 23 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 1 485 tons, 23,6% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 160 tons, 34,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 768 tons, 12,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 5 552 lbs / 2 518 Kg = 8,0 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17 Metacentric height 2,9 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 14,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,74 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,527 / 0,534 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,71 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,45 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 19,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 44,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 22,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,04 ft / 6,41 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197,4% Waterplane Area: 18 074 Square feet or 1 679 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96% Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 428 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,68 - Longitudinal: 2,32 - Overall: 0,77 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Экономная аи версия "Шарнхорста" - проекта "крейсера Р": laid down 1931 Displacement: 15 478 t light; 16 456 t standard; 18 507 t normal; 20 148 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (688,94 ft / 662,73 ft) x 75,46 ft x (22,97 / 24,53 ft) (209,99 m / 202,00 m) x 23,00 m x (7,00 / 7,48 m) Armament: 9 - 11,14" / 283 mm 50,0 cal guns - 732,11lbs / 332,08kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1931 Model 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 7 016 lbs / 3 183 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,520 t each, 9,122 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 145,51 lbs / 66,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,650 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 344,49 ft / 105,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 0,79" / 20 mm 311,68 ft / 95,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 80% of normal length Main Belt inclined 21,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 6,30" / 160 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 83 475 shp / 62 272 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 12 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3 692 tons Complement: 793 - 1 031 Cost: £6,963 million / $27,850 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 735 tons, 9,4% - Guns: 1 715 tons, 9,3% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 3 901 tons, 21,1% - Belts: 849 tons, 4,6% - Armament: 747 tons, 4,0% - Armour Deck: 2 234 tons, 12,1% - Conning Towers: 71 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 2 496 tons, 13,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 346 tons, 39,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 030 tons, 16,4% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 27 016 lbs / 12 254 Kg = 39,1 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13 Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,3 m Roll period: 15,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,84 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,15 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,564 / 0,575 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,78 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 29,47 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 29,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 44,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 21,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,37 ft / 6,52 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79,5% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 181,8% Waterplane Area: 36 827 Square feet or 3 421 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119% Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 754 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,01 - Longitudinal: 1,48 - Overall: 1,05 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Была идея/попытка поставить на два вала дизели и на другие два вала - турбины, но посчитал за лучшее ставить 4 турбины меньшей мощности.
von Echenbach: Вариант "Объединённой океанской эскадры" 1926-32 гг. проработки: 1 лк, 1 тКр, 2 лгКр ( а) гидроавианосный - для разведывательных и малых ударных операций и ПВО отряда -18-21 ГС: 6 истребители-бомбардировщики Арадо-196м, 12 бомбардировщиков-торпедоносцев-разведчиком Арадо-196-т + 3 запасных и б) крейсер\танкер ПВО-ПМО-снабжения / запасов на 2-3 заправки по 2000 т.). В первом проекте Гирокрейсера указывалось наличие 5х3 150-мм (три башни пирамидой в корме и две в носу, носовые башни заменялись на 2 катапульты и авиагруппу. Официальные характеристики: 6000 т, 32 уз, 1200 миль, 15 150-мм, борт и палуба 40 мм объяснялись разведывательными и противокрейсерскими задачами в акватории Северного и Балтийского морей. 3х3 150-мм в кормовой группе - не многовато-ли? М.б. сократить до 6... крейсер типа Л-аи laid down 1932 Displacement: 6 731 t light; 7 017 t standard; 7 484 t normal; 7 858 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (488,87 ft / 462,60 ft) x 52,49 ft x (19,69 / 20,43 ft) (149,01 m / 141,00 m) x 16,00 m x (6,00 / 6,23 m) Armament: 9 - 5,91" / 150 mm 45,0 cal guns - 103,86lbs / 47,11kg shells, 200 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 1 raised mount aft 8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 300 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 60,0 cal guns - 1,69lbs / 0,77kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 116 lbs / 506 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,524 t each, 9,146 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 121,25 lbs / 55,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 1,083 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 1,57" / 40 mm 321,52 ft / 98,00 m 11,48 ft / 3,50 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 107% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 2nd: 0,35" / 9 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 0,63" / 16 mm Quarter deck: 1,26" / 32 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 53 673 shp / 40 040 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 4 500nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 841 tons Complement: 402 - 523 Cost: £2,523 million / $10,094 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 326 tons, 4,4% - Guns: 306 tons, 4,1% - Weapons: 20 tons, 0,3% Armour: 1 170 tons, 15,6% - Belts: 240 tons, 3,2% - Armament: 162 tons, 2,2% - Armour Deck: 747 tons, 10,0% - Conning Tower: 19 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 1 584 tons, 21,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 011 tons, 40,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 754 tons, 10,1% Miscellaneous weights: 640 tons, 8,6% - Hull below water: 400 tons - Hull above water: 200 tons - On freeboard deck: 40 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 938 lbs / 4 508 Kg = 96,5 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11 Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 14,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,49 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,06 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,548 / 0,554 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,81 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,66 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24,00 degrees Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 42,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 27,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 19,61 ft / 5,98 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154,8% Waterplane Area: 17 610 Square feet or 1 636 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127% Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 525 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,11 - Longitudinal: 2,78 - Overall: 1,21 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Проект крейсера-танкера в разработке. Крейсера дополнительно планируется оснащать 3-4 автожирами.
von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: Я бы скорее поверил в 1х2 28.3 +... с заменой избыточно крупных (тм) башен 2х2 14.9 на 2х2 28.3. Дизель-электро в данном случае, имхо, избыточна, хватило бы и обычной гидрозубчатой передачи а-ля реальные Дойчланды. [img class=smile" src=/gif/smk/sm36.gif] Поразмышлял... и согласился - для второй серии рейдеров и при возможном перевооружении на 3х3 280 или 3х2 305. Или перечислить начальный вариант в класс ЛгКР.
dr5r: von Echenbach пишет: Висбаден Ну это уже какой-то "лидер имени дим999" на стероидах, это изврат :) уж если строить с 28 см в таком водоизмещении, то, имхо, лучше две-три одноорудийные в противоосколочных щитах. Мой БРБО "Хорив", вывёрнутый из бронетёмкина в крейсер, так сказать.
von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: Ну это уже какой-то "лидер имени дим999" на стероидах, это изврат :) уж если строить с 28 см в таком водоизмещении, то, имхо, лучше две-три одноорудийные в противоосколочных щитах. :-) Т.е. развиваем идею Тенрю-Красный Кавказ в немецкое торжество сумрачных гениев с 4 (на 3 орудиях никто для крейсера не остановится, да и 2-3 будут мучительно долго никуда не попадать) ГК. На собственно проект аи-Висбаден 280 более для психологического эффекта с возможной заменой и добавлением стволов: а) 6 280, б) 6-9 210-203, в) как есть, ы) - ? В каком-то ракурсе ограничение стволов и тоннажа развивается в теме аи-Сиам. Все предложения вследствие предполагаемой мною вероятной неполноценности состава рейдерских соединений гитлеровского флота, при некотором влиянии на срывы планового строительства супер-флота "раннего" начала войны в 1939 г. - Скажите Редер, вы английский шпион? (с) :-)
von Echenbach: Возможная замена проектов "Шарнхорст"\Р и "Принц Евгений"- рейдерско-авианосный способ применения. 13-16 000 т, 28 уз, 9000 миль на 16 уз, 2х3 280 (2х3 203), 6х2 105, б - 140, п - 70. 3 лет. лодки малые, 21 гидросамолет "улучшенный Арадо" (280 км\ч, 4 15-мм, 2 7,9, 900 кг\1 торпеда, 2 чел, 500 миль), носовая катапульта, арочный мостик, трубы - в борта. laid down 1934 Displacement: 12 319 t light; 12 965 t standard; 14 703 t normal; 16 093 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (653,38 ft / 626,64 ft) x 68,90 ft x (22,97 / 24,56 ft) (199,15 m / 191,00 m) x 21,00 m x (7,00 / 7,49 m) Armament: 6 - 11,02" / 280 mm 50,0 cal guns - 709,07lbs / 321,63kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model 2 x Triple mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 55,0 cal guns - 38,13lbs / 17,29kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 60,0 cal guns - 1,69lbs / 0,77kg shells, 450 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 4 732 lbs / 2 147 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,532 t each, 9,194 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,13" / 105 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,38" / 35 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 36,09 ft / 11,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 1,57" / 40 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 81% of normal length Main Belt inclined 17,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 2,76" / 70 mm 8,27" / 210 mm 2nd: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 3rd: 0,35" / 9 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,76" / 70 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 1,38" / 35 mm - Conning towers: Forward 5,51" / 140 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 55 366 shp / 41 303 Kw = 28,00 kts Range 9 000nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3 128 tons Complement: 666 - 867 Cost: £5,652 million / $22,610 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 063 tons, 7,2% - Guns: 1 044 tons, 7,1% - Weapons: 18 tons, 0,1% Armour: 3 048 tons, 20,7% - Belts: 900 tons, 6,1% - Armament: 673 tons, 4,6% - Armour Deck: 1 404 tons, 9,5% - Conning Tower: 71 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 593 tons, 10,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 136 tons, 41,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 384 tons, 16,2% Miscellaneous weights: 480 tons, 3,3% - Hull below water: 400 tons - Hull above water: 60 tons - On freeboard deck: 20 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 24 778 lbs / 11 239 Kg = 37,0 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07 Metacentric height 3,2 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 16,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,00 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,46 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,519 / 0,531 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,10 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,72 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 28,00 degrees Stern overhang: 7,55 ft / 2,30 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 19,00%, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 36,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Aft deck: 31,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 22,57 ft / 6,88 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185,7% Waterplane Area: 30 454 Square feet or 2 829 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128% Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 682 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,94 - Longitudinal: 1,75 - Overall: 1,00 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Пан директор: Я вот думаю - а как насчет Больших Подводных Лодок для немцев. Пресловутый 21 проект был 1600 тонн, 7-й проект 630-760 тонн. А вот если замахнуться на что-то размером с 641Б или 651?
von Echenbach: Пан директор пишет: а как насчет Больших Подводных Лодок для немцев. - Что-то в этом есть... :-) Как транспортные лодки снабжения. В дополнение к системе снабжения с всп.КР (если они только как снабженцы, в т.ч. сменные команды).
von Echenbach: Версия возможной аи-инкарнации веймарского флота - с неким интересом о возможном аи-ответе англичан и французов. До аи-1926 года - медленное верстание различных проектов. Далее - МН - пост-Ягуары типа "а"- с 3х2 88 универсальной установкой и в дальнейшем - её стабилизация (совместные разработки с Хаземеер и Бофорсом), тип "б" - с 2х2 или 3х2 105 и 3х3/2х4 тас голландцами - проработки ПЛ. S- и R-boot - небольшие колебания, как и с ТЩ. Для МН прорабатывали дизельную ГЭУ - 3 корабля. Крейсера: Первый вариант - практически реальные "К" - 2 ед, но с дизельной ГЭУ, последующие - при паротурбинной ГЭУ ГК означен в 9 (3х3) 6", по факту при смене башен - 3х3 8" - 4+4 ед. В производстве с 1929 года. Большой крейсер (второй вариант) - в формально 10 000т при реальных 15000 т получили сверхтяжелый КР с 3х3 280, названы "броненосцами" - 3+3 ед. В постройке с 1932 года. Эсминцы: 1) тяжелый - 2600 т, 32 уз, 4х1 6"(автомат 3/4) и 3-5х2 88. + ледовый пояс и палуба. 1-2х4 та - 12 ед.; 2) океанский (4/или больше с дизельными ГЭУ /дальность до 6-7 000 миль/ + 18-24 ед. ТПЗУ) с 4х1 105 , 4-6 37 и 3х4 та, Этакий призрак Акидзуки :-) Германский "Акидзуки", laid down 1934, Displacement: 1 853 t light; 1 932 t standard; 2 218 t normal; 2 446 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (379,55 ft / 364,17 ft) x 36,09 ft x (13,12 / 14,04 ft) (115,69 m / 111,00 m) x 11,00 m x (4,00 / 4,28 m) Armament: 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 200 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 291 lbs / 132 kg Main Torpedoes 12 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,532 t each, 18,387 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 145,51 lbs / 66,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 1,299 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 0,47" / 12 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 139% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 2nd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 0,47" / 12 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,71" / 18 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 29 917 shp / 22 318 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 514 tons Complement: 161 - 210 Cost: £0,979 million / $3,918 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 95 tons, 4,3% - Guns: 57 tons, 2,6% - Weapons: 38 tons, 1,7% Armour: 118 tons, 5,3% - Belts: 40 tons, 1,8% - Armament: 11 tons, 0,5% - Armour Deck: 65 tons, 2,9% - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 861 tons, 38,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 780 tons, 35,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 364 tons, 16,4% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 1 688 lbs / 766 Kg = 47,8 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,35 Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m Roll period: 11,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,16 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,06 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,450 / 0,464 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,09 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,90 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Average freeboard: 14,79 ft / 4,51 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 132,8% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99,2% Waterplane Area: 8 708 Square feet or 809 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112% Structure weight / hull surface area: 51 lbs/sq ft or 249 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,82 - Longitudinal: 2,29 - Overall: 0,91 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Warning: Wrong mount for rapid fire gun - 2nd Battery Германский тяжелый "Z" /S-150m: laid down 1928, Displacement: 1 801 t light; 1 894 t standard; 2 004 t normal; 2 093 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (374,23 ft / 357,61 ft) x 29,53 ft x (14,76 / 15,20 ft) (114,07 m / 109,00 m) x 9,00 m x (4,50 / 4,63 m) Armament: 4 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 3 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 558 lbs / 253 kg Main Torpedoes 8 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,508 t each, 12,066 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 145,51 lbs / 66,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,650 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 1,26" / 32 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 113% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,35" / 9 mm 0,20" / 5 mm - 2nd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 0,71" / 18 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,71" / 18 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32 174 shp / 24 002 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 198 tons Complement: 149 - 194 Cost: £0,819 million / $3,277 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 123 tons, 6,2% - Guns: 98 tons, 4,9% - Weapons: 25 tons, 1,2% Armour: 173 tons, 8,6% - Belts: 86 tons, 4,3% - Armament: 8 tons, 0,4% - Armour Deck: 76 tons, 3,8% - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 893 tons, 44,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 612 tons, 30,5% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 204 tons, 10,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 796 lbs / 361 Kg = 7,4 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16 Metacentric height 1,1 ft / 0,3 m Roll period: 12,0 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,76 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,14 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,450 / 0,456 Length to Beam Ratio: 12,11 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,40 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 36,00%, 10,83 ft / 3,30 m, 10,83 ft / 3,30 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 10,83 ft / 3,30 m, 12,14 ft / 3,70 m - Average freeboard: 13,97 ft / 4,26 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 157,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94,8% Waterplane Area: 6 997 Square feet or 650 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 82% Structure weight / hull surface area: 44 lbs/sq ft or 213 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,69 - Longitudinal: 2,62 - Overall: 0,79 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Супер-Кёльн ЛгТКР: laid down 1927, Displacement: 6 388 t light; 6 786 t standard; 7 071 t normal; 7 300 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (515,42 ft / 495,41 ft) x 54,46 ft x (19,69 / 20,13 ft) (157,10 m / 151,00 m) x 16,60 m x (6,00 / 6,13 m) Armament: 9 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 180 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward 1 raised mount 12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 2 461 lbs / 1 116 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,504 t each, 6,017 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 102% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,18" / 30 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm - Conning towers: Forward 1,57" / 40 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 48 226 shp / 35 977 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 2 600nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 515 tons Complement: 385 - 501 Cost: £2,405 million / $9,621 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 693 tons, 9,8% - Guns: 681 tons, 9,6% - Weapons: 12 tons, 0,2% Armour: 965 tons, 13,6% - Belts: 315 tons, 4,5% - Armament: 260 tons, 3,7% - Armour Deck: 378 tons, 5,3% - Conning Tower: 12 tons, 0,2% Machinery: 1 522 tons, 21,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 208 tons, 45,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 683 tons, 9,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 8 102 lbs / 3 675 Kg = 31,7 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03 Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,6 m Roll period: 15,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,97 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,466 / 0,471 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,10 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,70 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Average freeboard: 18,44 ft / 5,62 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152,5% Waterplane Area: 18 125 Square feet or 1 684 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115% Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 602 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,04 - Longitudinal: 2,20 - Overall: 1,12 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Warning: Wrong mount for rapid fire gun - 3rd Battery "Броненосцы": laid down 1931, Displacement: 11 853 t light; 12 767 t standard; 14 580 t normal; 16 031 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (561,75 ft / 534,78 ft) x 72,18 ft x (23,95 / 25,76 ft) (171,22 m / 163,00 m) x 22,00 m x (7,30 / 7,85 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 675,51lbs / 306,40kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1931 Model 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 16 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 6 662 lbs / 3 022 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,520 t each, 6,081 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 314,96 ft / 96,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 144,36 ft / 44,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 75,46 ft / 23,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 91% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77 284 shp / 57 654 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 12 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3 264 tons Complement: 663 - 862 Cost: £5,824 million / $23,295 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 486 tons, 10,2% - Guns: 1 474 tons, 10,1% - Weapons: 12 tons, 0,1% Armour: 2 494 tons, 17,1% - Belts: 1 077 tons, 7,4% - Armament: 617 tons, 4,2% - Armour Deck: 755 tons, 5,2% - Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 2 311 tons, 15,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 562 tons, 38,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 727 tons, 18,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 19 180 lbs / 8 700 Kg = 28,6 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13 Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 15,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,552 / 0,564 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,41 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 26,88 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 19,00%, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Aft deck: 37,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 23,88 ft / 7,28 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 179,6% Waterplane Area: 28 099 Square feet or 2 610 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114% Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 715 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,90 - Longitudinal: 2,45 - Overall: 1,00 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Warning: Wrong mount for rapid fire gun - 3rd Battery Вместе с голландцами разрабатывают ГидроавиаКР (+ Швеция) и ТР.Снабжения.
dr5r: von Echenbach пишет: при паротурбинной ГЭУ ГК означен в 9 (3х3) 6", по факту при смене башен - 3х3 8" Если 8" то, наверно, всё-таки надо 3х2. Или вспоминать 8.3" (210 мм) к ним же, или 3х3 17 см Дальность хода суперКёльнов никакущая.
von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: Дальность хода суперКёльнов никакущая. Почти как в реале. Предназначены для действий в ближней зоне в составе крейсерских эскадр - до 400-600 миль, борьба с патрулями и обеспечение действий Океанских рейдеров, которые - близки к аи-Бисмарку, но много тоньше защита. Малая дальность позволяла получить снисходительность Антанты в "нарушениях Версаля", ибо возможность организовать танкерное снабжение в море - не приняли во внимание. dr5r пишет: Если 8" то, наверно, всё-таки надо 3х2. Или вспоминать 8.3" (210 мм) к ним же, или 3х3 17 см 17 см вспоминались, отвергнуты как "невпечатляющие", 21 см - вызывающее нарушение м.б. А по 3х3 203 - так и жертва скоростью, мощностью и дальностью. И при проектировании уже расчёты на 3х3 8", 6" - фактически макеты, для апробации корпусных конструкционных технологий. :-) Авантюризм полный. После появления "броненосцев" англичане начали что-то подозревать (больше авианосцев и м.б. "Центурион" третьей генерации - с 12", близок к Аляскам?. Тут-то и договорные ограничения уходят - году в 1935-36. А французы остались спокойны - их Дюнкерки вполне неплохо выглядели. Конвои в СРЗМ старые дредноуты сопровождать будут.
von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: вспоминать 8.3" (210 мм) Утро вечера мудренее... )-; 210 - при некоторой экономии на разработке проекта модернизации (аи - новая башня, тяжелый снаряд в 150 кг, 6 выстр/мин, 820 м/сек) вполне подходят. Даже при хорошей работе англ. разведки -"... германцы строят легкие-тяжелые крейсера прибрежного действия, для прикрытия лёгких сил, ТЩ и ПЛ с усилением этих отрядов "броненосцами": что будет требовать привлечения ЛК и ЛнКР в состав ударной группы и формировать группу прикрытия из ЛК с авианосцем при атаке. Цель подобной комплектации - приближение наших (англ.) дозоров корабельных групп на 200-400 миль к побережью Германии и оптимизации противодействия комплексом разнородных сил в комбинированных операциях (набег мз-кр в 1918, Гельголанд, Отранто)...". Донесение от 0077-13аи. Меморандум 1 морскому лорду от МИ-6. на полях меморандума - рекомендовать премьеру не создавать политической проблемы, поскольку при утверждении нашей кораблестроительной программы немецкие проекты не дают стратегического преимущества.
dr5r: von Echenbach пишет: Почти как в реале. Предназначены для действий в ближней зоне в составе крейсерских эскадр Изначально Кёльны -- лёгкие рейдеры, для чего, собственно, и снабжались комбинированной ГЭУ. Только уже после постройки выяснилось, что обеспечить требуемую дальность не могут -- неверны оказались расчёты; а высокотемпературным охладом дизелей и отработанными газами подогревать котлы для быстрого старта турбин, видимо, не смогли или не догадались.
von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: Изначально Кёльны -- лёгкие рейдеры :-) Бы несколько не согласился. Некоторые рейдерские, скорее набеговые функции могли выполнять: призрак Дуврского барража / Отранто / подвиги Бруммер-Бремзе. Возможно, при удачной системе снабжения могли повторить приключения Карлсруэ и Эмдена. Больше подходят для лидирования больших ЭМ, но догматическое наименование "крейсер" связывало степени идей применения - к нашей пользе. Есть предположения о несколько неправильном применении - похожем на судьбу "богинь".
von Echenbach: Ещё одна из версий развития "веймарско-версальского" флота: Старые броненосцы как опытные корабли - 1.пара (Шлезвиг-Гольштейн) 2х3 280, 8х2 105 или на 1928 год 88-мм, 8 37, 17 уз - 3 винта, дизель-генераторы и электромоторы. 22 000 миль. 2. 19-21 уз, 4-12 000 миль, 3 3х3 280, 6х2 105, 17-19 уз. Крейсера лёгкие, первая пара Нюрнберг - как есть 6300 т, 32 уз, 3х3 150, 3х2 105 или 88, 4х3 та. (4х2 650-мм та Супер лонг-ланс) Электро и дизеля, как и трёхорудийные башни - для проработки/отработки тех. решений в постройке карманных линкоров, в данном варианте аи: 3х3 280, 6х2 105, 4-6 гидросамолетов, 28-30 уз.
Пан директор: У немцв было всего 6 легких крейсеров: Эмден, 3 крейсера типа К, Лейпциг и Нюрнберг, однофамилец Славы Макарова. При этом Нюрнберг заложили в ноябре 1933 года. А дальше немцев понесло. Я бы продолжил серию 6000 тонных крейсеров дальше, закладывая по 1 кораблю каждые год-два. При этом в 1936 году уже можно закладывать первый корабль 4х2х128-мм. Именно в этом году начали проектировать 128-мм немецкие зенитки Я думаю что параметры будут такими - 6000 тонн (может и меньше), силовая установка от эсминца мощностью 70000 л.с. (либо трехвальная полуторная версия, мощностью 100 тысяч лошадиных сил), 4х2х128-мм установки, 4х2х37-мм автомата, 6-8 счетверенных 20-мм установок, 2 торпедных аппарата. Бронирование - способное держать 120-127-130-мм бронебойные снаряды эсминцев.
von Echenbach: 4х2 128 2 и пр. на 6000 т - недовооружен, если только не ставить задачи рейдера в 8000 миль на 14 с поясом и палубой/башнями в 18-22 мм // прикрытия тяжелого рейдера на выходе-прибытии от ЭМ или ПВО. По факту - усиленный броне-лидер. в 4,5-5 тт - аи-Ниобе laid down 1935, Displacement: 4 209 t light; 4 383 t standard; 4 742 t normal; 5 030 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (466,13 ft / 446,19 ft) x 52,49 ft x (16,40 / 17,07 ft) (142,08 m / 136,00 m) x 16,00 m x (5,00 / 5,20 m) Armament: 8 - 5,04" / 128 mm 50,0 cal guns - 67,74lbs / 30,73kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 6 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 550 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 850 per gun Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 553 lbs / 251 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,536 t each, 9,218 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 94,80 lbs / 43,00 kg Depth Charges + 12 reloads - 0,592 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,60" / 66 mm 305,12 ft / 93,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 105% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,26" / 32 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 1,73" / 44 mm 2nd: 0,35" / 9 mm - - 3rd: 0,20" / 5 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,73" / 44 mm Forecastle: 0,87" / 22 mm Quarter deck: 0,87" / 22 mm - Conning towers: Forward 1,73" / 44 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 47 383 shp / 35 348 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 647 tons Complement: 285 - 371 Cost: £2,006 million / $8,024 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 210 tons, 4,4% - Guns: 190 tons, 4,0% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,4% Armour: 768 tons, 16,2% - Belts: 214 tons, 4,5% - Armament: 96 tons, 2,0% - Armour Deck: 447 tons, 9,4% - Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0,2% Machinery: 1 346 tons, 28,4% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 885 tons, 39,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 533 tons, 11,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 6 147 lbs / 2 788 Kg = 96,1 x 5,0 " / 128 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23 Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,8 m Roll period: 13,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,24 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,432 / 0,440 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,50 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 22,96 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 18,04 ft / 5,50 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167,0% Waterplane Area: 15 069 Square feet or 1 400 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118% Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 405 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,92 - Longitudinal: 2,01 - Overall: 1,00 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Наверное, есть и другие варианты проекта.
Пан директор: von Echenbach пишет: 4х2 128 2 и пр. на 6000 т - недовооружен, Длина ствола у 12.8 cm FlaK 40 была 61 калибр, у противотанковой 12.8 cm Pak 44 - 55 калибров. Плюс стабилизация и бронирование. У спаренной морской установки будет масса под 100 тонн. Плюс большой боекомплект из-за высокой скорострельности. Ну и мощность машин ставьте нормальную. Да и бронирование тоже. 6000 тонн легко наберете.
von Echenbach: аи-Шарнхорст 1936 с 12 / 4х3 / 283-мм и 20 /10х2 / 105-мм. laid down 1936, Displacement: 31 192 t light; 32 753 t standard; 35 781 t normal; 38 204 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (778,84 ft / 754,59 ft) x 98,43 ft x (31,17 / 32,82 ft) (237,39 m / 230,00 m) x 30,00 m x (9,50 / 10,00 m) Armament: 12 - 11,14" / 283 mm 52,0 cal guns - 738,46lbs / 334,96kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 16 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 550 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 raised mounts 4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 2 raised mounts Weight of broadside 9 599 lbs / 4 354 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,540 t each, 9,242 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 123,46 lbs / 56,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,551 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 98,43 ft / 30,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 67% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 12,6" / 320 mm 2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - 4th: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 0,79" / 20 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm - Conning towers: Forward 8,27" / 210 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 156 436 shp / 116 701 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 10 000nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 5 451 tons Complement: 1 300 - 1 691 Cost: £14,374 million / $57,496 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 2 518 tons, 7,0% - Guns: 2 499 tons, 7,0% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 7 147 tons, 20,0% - Belts: 2 135 tons, 6,0% - Armament: 2 077 tons, 5,8% - Armour Deck: 2 742 tons, 7,7% - Conning Tower: 193 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 4 389 tons, 12,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 17 139 tons, 47,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 589 tons, 12,8% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 53 315 lbs / 24 183 Kg = 77,1 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 3,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22 Metacentric height 7,0 ft / 2,1 m Roll period: 15,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,541 / 0,549 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,67 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 27,47 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,72 ft / 6,32 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146,8% Waterplane Area: 51 398 Square feet or 4 775 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140% Structure weight / hull surface area: 253 lbs/sq ft or 1 237 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,50 - Longitudinal: 1,83 - Overall: 1,53 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room аи-Шарнхорост-35 с 15 (5х3) 11" схема Такао-Бруклин: laid down 1935, Displacement: 26 785 t light; 28 248 t standard; 30 906 t normal; 33 033 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (786,04 ft / 761,15 ft) x 98,43 ft x (29,53 / 31,03 ft) (239,59 m / 232,00 m) x 30,00 m x (9,00 / 9,46 m) Armament: 15 - 11,14" / 283 mm 52,0 cal guns - 738,46lbs / 334,96kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 20 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 raised mounts - superfiring 16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 1,71lbs / 0,78kg shells, 550 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 11 817 lbs / 5 360 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,536 t each, 9,218 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 112,44 lbs / 51,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,502 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 13,4" / 340 mm 393,70 ft / 120,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 39,37 ft / 12,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 80% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 13,4" / 340 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 13,4" / 340 mm 2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 11,02" / 280 mm, Aft 3,54" / 90 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 139 219 shp / 103 858 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 9 500nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4 784 tons Complement: 1 165 - 1 515 Cost: £14,041 million / $56,163 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 3 110 tons, 10,1% - Guns: 3 091 tons, 10,0% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 8 608 tons, 27,9% - Belts: 2 545 tons, 8,2% - Armament: 2 764 tons, 8,9% - Armour Deck: 2 991 tons, 9,7% - Conning Towers: 309 tons, 1,0% Machinery: 3 955 tons, 12,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 11 111 tons, 36,0% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 122 tons, 13,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 39 121 lbs / 17 745 Kg = 56,6 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 3,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11 Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m Roll period: 16,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,07 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,489 / 0,497 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,73 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 27,59 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 19,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 33,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 34,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,66 ft / 6,30 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157,4% Waterplane Area: 49 421 Square feet or 4 591 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108% Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 892 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,98 - Longitudinal: 1,24 - Overall: 1,00 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
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