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Рейхкригсмарине
von Echenbach: Попытаемся рассмотреть возможные варианты развития или совершенствования кораблей и/или тактики немецкого флота в 1939-1945, м.б. с изначалья - с 1920. Враг был силен, умен и очень хорошо обучен и оснащён. М.б. некоторые идеи можно будет взять на вооружение АИ ВМС РККА СССР. Например: ЛгКР оснастить булями и усилить ПВО ТКА (S) добавить бугельные или трубные ТА за основными (носовыми). Старые броненосцы - как "большие КЛ", корабли поддержки Лг. сил и, - особенно6 ПВО (до 24 88-105мм) ВМС Авиация - ? Уклон в Авианосцы - ? Ведрение "КЛ" - ? Методы применения ВспКР - ? Средства РЭ обнаружения - м.б. не трогать?
Ответов - 72, стр:
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von Echenbach: Плавучий носовой составной отсек для прорывания минных заграждений, стыкуется с носом ТР-КР или иного плавсредства. до 200 т, 16х12х6 (размеры могут изменяться), много отсеков с наполнением водовытесняющими материалами. В носу - выдвижной аналог щитового трала (имущество надо беречь) с растяжками параван-охранителя шириной до 16-20 м. Время стыковки-расцепления - до 15-20 мин.
Пан директор: Как только погода испортится или скорость поднимется - его оторвет
von Echenbach: Пан директор пишет: его оторвет Мда уж... вот ведь реализм образовался. 2-3 типо-размера, для опасных вод вблизи баз или в прибрежной зоне. 1. Эластичный вариант крепления и ограничение по скорости. 2. При шторме - на буксир судна обеспечения. 3. Можно и систему Фойта-Шнейдера поставить на больших, ибо более пары десятков такого "эксклюзива" не будет.
von Echenbach: Противоминный понтон (баржа-плашкоут-прам), можно устанавливать орудия - как плавбатарея БО или ПВО. laid down 1938 Displacement: 506 t light; 516 t standard; 519 t normal; 521 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (78,25 ft / 75,46 ft) x 39,37 ft x (13,12 / 13,16 ft) (23,85 m / 23,00 m) x 12,00 m x (4,00 / 4,01 m) Armament: 1 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal gun - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 450 per gun Machine gun in deck mount, 1938 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg Machinery: Petrol Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 154 shp / 115 Kw = 5,00 kts Range 120nm at 2,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 5 tons Complement: 53 - 70 Cost: £0,103 million / $0,413 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 0 tons, 0,0% - Guns: 0 tons, 0,0% Machinery: 4 tons, 0,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 442 tons, 85,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 13 tons, 2,5% Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 11,6% - Hull below water: 50 tons - Hull above water: 5 tons - On freeboard deck: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 3 915 lbs / 1 776 Kg = 36,3 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 4,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,98 Metacentric height 3,7 ft / 1,1 m Roll period: 8,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,466 / 0,467 Length to Beam Ratio: 1,92 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 12,11 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m - Average freeboard: 7,60 ft / 2,32 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 16,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 47,1% Waterplane Area: 1 996 Square feet or 185 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 755% Structure weight / hull surface area: 159 lbs/sq ft or 778 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 3,42 - Longitudinal: 54,57 - Overall: 4,51 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: Некоторая аи-ретроспектива: 1. Тирпиц более ранее в отставке. Кто мог заменить его и переработать теорию "рассчитанного риска"? 2. Германцы перешли на большие калибры после появления Дредноута, отказ от экономии (из пп1): возможно сразу на 350 (360) и 400 (430) -мм. Пересмотр значения и необходимости СК на ЛК. 3. В период перехода (пп2) на новые модели орудий и кораблей, Нассау и Блюхер сохранены РИ) развиваются "океанские" крейсера: а) инвариант "карманных линкоров"(3-4х2 280, 26-28 уз, до 6000-9000 миль дальность), б) набеговые противоэскортные/противокрейсерские корабли: 280 или 305 -мм ГК 3-4х2? Или 4х2 210-мм? Для "экономии" м.б. 3х2 305-мм... эдакий мини-Конго/Лайон без носовой возвышенной башни. Какими могли быть "Шарнхорсты" аи-1 МВ?
von Echenbach: аи Шархорст-1909 laid down 1909 Displacement: 16 398 t light; 17 215 t standard; 19 665 t normal; 21 625 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (610,56 ft / 597,11 ft) x 75,46 ft x (26,25 / 28,37 ft) (186,10 m / 182,00 m) x 23,00 m x (8,00 / 8,65 m) Armament: 6 - 12,01" / 305 mm 54,0 cal guns - 931,29lbs / 422,42kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 1 raised mount aft 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 170 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread Weight of broadside 6 141 lbs / 2 786 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 301,84 ft / 92,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 6,30" / 160 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 32,81 ft / 10,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 78% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 12,6" / 320 mm 2nd: 1,26" / 32 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 9,45" / 240 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 59 899 shp / 44 684 Kw = 27,00 kts Range 7 800nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4 410 tons Complement: 829 - 1 079 Cost: £1,608 million / $6,431 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 565 tons, 8,0% - Guns: 1 565 tons, 8,0% Armour: 5 761 tons, 29,3% - Belts: 2 277 tons, 11,6% - Armament: 1 287 tons, 6,5% - Armour Deck: 2 048 tons, 10,4% - Conning Tower: 148 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 2 723 tons, 13,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 350 tons, 32,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 267 tons, 16,6% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 27 288 lbs / 12 378 Kg = 31,5 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10 Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 16,0 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,72 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,18 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,582 / 0,592 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,91 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,15 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 40,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 25,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,11 ft / 6,44 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,5% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158,6% Waterplane Area: 33 759 Square feet or 3 136 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113% Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 698 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,95 - Longitudinal: 1,58 - Overall: 1,00 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: 1. Пошлифовал проект крейсеров "К". 4х2 150/50, 4х2 88, 8 37, 2х3 ТА, 29 уз, броня 90-30 мм. альт Кельн-2, альт Герм альт ЛгКР laid down 1928 Displacement: 5 050 t light; 5 294 t standard; 6 032 t normal; 6 623 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (494,59 ft / 479,00 ft) x 49,21 ft x (16,40 / 17,62 ft) (150,75 m / 146,00 m) x 15,00 m x (5,00 / 5,37 m) Armament: 8 - 5,98" / 152 mm 50,0 cal guns - 113,44lbs / 51,45kg shells, 170 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1928 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 088 lbs / 493 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,508 t each, 9,050 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 239,50 ft / 73,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 77% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 2nd: 0,71" / 18 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric motors, 3 shafts, 35 164 shp / 26 232 Kw = 28,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 328 tons Complement: 341 - 444 Cost: £1,658 million / $6,634 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 337 tons, 5,6% - Guns: 319 tons, 5,3% - Weapons: 18 tons, 0,3% Armour: 1 561 tons, 25,9% - Belts: 614 tons, 10,2% - Armament: 227 tons, 3,8% - Armour Deck: 687 tons, 11,4% - Conning Towers: 34 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 1 095 tons, 18,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 057 tons, 34,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 983 tons, 16,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 412 lbs / 4 269 Kg = 87,8 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06 Metacentric height 1,9 ft / 0,6 m Roll period: 14,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,79 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,62 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,546 / 0,558 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,73 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,90 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 37,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,73 ft / 6,32 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185,1% Waterplane Area: 17 062 Square feet or 1 585 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127% Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 360 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,80 - Longitudinal: 2,20 - Overall: 0,88 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather 2. Модернизация шнельботов: а) 4 ТА, спаренные вертикально в носу, + две запасные торпеды. б) большой катер- малый миноносец: 120-160 т, 33-34 уз, 8 торпедных труб - 2 спаренные в носу, две спаренные установки - по миделю. 3-4 20-мм, 2 37-мм, м.б. замена-добавление 1 37-мм на 1 (??? 2) 88. ГК в основном традиционно - в корме. Ваше мнение -?
Пан директор: Кто его только не шлифовал http://skb-86.awardspace.biz/eva.htm
Пан директор: von Echenbach пишет: альт Кельн-2, альт Герм альт ЛгКР laid down 1928 28 узлов и 90-мм брони - Ок! Продолжаем идеологию бронированного лидера! Броня вместо скорости и вместо пушек Как насчёт булей?
Пан директор: По-поводу больших катеров - смотри немецкие раумботы серии R301 Раумботы
von Echenbach: Пан директор пишет: раумботы серии R301 Все они медленные, против MG and SG слабы или опоздали. Тральщики М тоже медленные. В прикрытии конвоев действия немецких эскортных сил в Канале вызывают, по описаниям, смешанное впечатление: часто некоторая неорганизованность или растерянность при активных атаках английских москитов. Пан директор пишет: 28 узлов и 90-мм брони - Ок! Продолжаем идеологию бронированного лидера! Броня вместо скорости и вместо пушек Как насчёт булей? Считал шарпием, були принял за излишество, но добавить можно. М.Б. "слоистые" конструкции борта-встроенная ПТЗ - наружный отсек заполнен пенобетоном (вектор силы повреждения м.б. направлен вверх, по слабейшему сопротивлению), следующий вглубь отсек,- расширительная камера, далее -топливный и фильтрационная переборка (может быть выполнена из броневой стал-мягкой?). Собственно корпус делится на три продольных главных отсека, в центральных погреба и одна из турбин + часть котлов. Особо большая скорость для эскорта ЛК - конвоя в зоне действия 50-300 миль от берега не так уж и нужна. Количество орудий по сравнению с реальным проектом уменьшено на 1. Повышение калибра ГК при предназначении действия против ЭМ и КР представляется необоснованным. ЗА аи Кельн-Ева можно довести до 5-7х2 88 или даже 105 -мм. На корме возможно предусмотреть размещение 1-3 гидросамолётов.
von Echenbach: альт Гейзенау, альт Герм альт ЛК-рейдер laid down 1935 Два ГК - сомнительная идея, но м.б. пройдёт. Displacement: 25 649 t light; 27 471 t standard; 29 221 t normal; 30 621 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (658,97 ft / 629,92 ft) x 93,83 ft x (29,53 / 30,65 ft) (200,85 m / 192,00 m) x 28,60 m x (9,00 / 9,34 m) Armament: 6 - 14,96" / 380 mm 50,0 cal guns - 1 772,42lbs / 803,96kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 6 - 11,02" / 280 mm 50,0 cal guns - 709,07lbs / 321,63kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount - superfiring 24 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 raised mounts - superfiring 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 raised mounts - superfiring 12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 750 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 15 763 lbs / 7 150 kg Main DC/AS Mortars 4 - 196,21 lbs / 89,00 kg Depth Charges + 16 reloads - 1,752 t total in Depth charge throwers Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 354,33 ft / 108,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 87% of normal length Main Belt inclined 16,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 12,6" / 320 mm 2nd: 11,0" / 280 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 11,8" / 300 mm 3rd: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,47" / 12 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 4th: 0,35" / 9 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,35" / 85 mm Forecastle: 1,38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 2,17" / 55 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,87" / 200 mm, Aft 2,36" / 60 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 114 066 shp / 85 093 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 5 600nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3 150 tons Complement: 1 116 - 1 452 Cost: £14,952 million / $59,808 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 3 629 tons, 12,4% - Guns: 3 626 tons, 12,4% - Weapons: 3 tons, 0,0% Armour: 9 152 tons, 31,3% - Belts: 3 388 tons, 11,6% - Armament: 2 993 tons, 10,2% - Armour Deck: 2 562 tons, 8,8% - Conning Towers: 209 tons, 0,7% Machinery: 3 241 tons, 11,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 627 tons, 32,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 572 tons, 12,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 31 610 lbs / 14 338 Kg = 18,9 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 3,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07 Metacentric height 5,2 ft / 1,6 m Roll period: 17,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,586 / 0,592 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,71 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 29,31 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 39,37 ft / 12,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Average freeboard: 27,05 ft / 8,25 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 196,2% Waterplane Area: 44 455 Square feet or 4 130 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95% Structure weight / hull surface area: 176 lbs/sq ft or 858 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,77 - Longitudinal: 2,03 - Overall: 0,85 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Дополнение: По некоторому размышлению обнаружилось, сто проект альт-Гнейзенау сходен с проектом нашей ув. Заиньки с названием "Махайрод". Вот. ГК можно рвзнести, с возвышенными 2-й ГК, и даже добавить по мидель пару башен "2 ГК" с доведением бортового залпа "2 ГК" до 8 (4х2)-12 (4х3) и ГК 1 до 6 (3х2/2х3 или 9 (3х3). В любом случае - рейдер. Или корабль поддержки линейных-легких сил. Антагонизм функций - кажущийся, ибо предназначен корабль проекта для борьбы с тяжелыми кораблями прикрытия или подавления крейсерско-миноносных сил. Неплохо выглядит в связке с авиакрейсером (разведка, частично ПЛО-ПВО и немного ударные функции. И, как всегда - универсал несовершенен. Следующая сентенция: нет в мире совершенства/...если нет гербовой бумаги.../надо попробовать. Самое же идейное содержание темы - в попытке найти альт. тактику, и только потом - альт. проекты кораблей для германцев. Для 1, отчасти - 2 МВ а аи игре на первый план выходят действия в океане (или блиц-десант на остров). Для 2 мв влияют более совершенные приборы связи-обнаружения и другие технические факторы (Авиация, ПЛ). Вероятно, для германцев в аи следует перейти от действий набором отрядов в "сети" движений по решению последовательностей тактических задач, к системе "наборов прото-Лего" - комбинация тактических и обеспечивающих отрядов. По уровню развития экономики сложно довести эти маневренные оперативные группы до состояния ри американских ударных флотских групп или английских оперативных "ударных сил".
von Echenbach: Германская версия морских мониторов - см. историю Террор, Сульт и пр. Даный проект предназначался для применения модернизированных установок ГК (повышенная скорострельность до 4 в/мин и ускорение горизонтальной наводки), поддержка береговой обороны баз, учебные мероприятия и отработка технологий. Для условий Версаля - как самоходные плавбатареи. Официальная скорость на 1 дизеле - 6-7 уз. Реальное предназначение - корабли поддержки и прикрытия десанта. аи ббо плавбат х-бр Кайзер, аи Германия аи т бр кл laid down 1924 Displacement: 7 097 t light; 7 437 t standard; 7 545 t normal; 7 632 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (344,70 ft / 331,36 ft) x 65,62 ft x (19,69 / 21,48 ft) (105,07 m / 101,00 m) x 20,00 m x (6,00 / 6,55 m) Armament: 6 - 9,45" / 240 mm 40,0 cal guns - 404,25lbs / 183,37kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 raised mounts 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 450 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 2 717 lbs / 1 232 kg Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 8,19" / 208 mm 98,43 ft / 30,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 7,09" / 180 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 36,09 ft / 11,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 46% of normal length Main Belt inclined 17,00 degrees (positive = in) - Hull void: 0,16" / 4 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 10,2" / 260 mm 2nd: 1,26" / 32 mm 0,47" / 12 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 3rd: 0,47" / 12 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 4,72" / 120 mm Forecastle: 2,36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 8,66" / 220 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 6 703 shp / 5 001 Kw = 15,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 194 tons Complement: 404 - 526 Cost: £1,531 million / $6,122 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 657 tons, 8,7% - Guns: 656 tons, 8,7% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 3 186 tons, 42,2% - Belts: 982 tons, 13,0% - Void: 20 tons, 0,3% - Armament: 742 tons, 9,8% - Armour Deck: 1 370 tons, 18,2% - Conning Tower: 72 tons, 1,0% Machinery: 221 tons, 2,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 033 tons, 40,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 448 tons, 5,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 16 727 lbs / 7 587 Kg = 39,7 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 4,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03 Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 16,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,54 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,27 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,617 / 0,572 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,05 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,76 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 11,39 ft / 3,47 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 37,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78,2% Waterplane Area: 16 845 Square feet or 1 565 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133% Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 768 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,13 - Longitudinal: 2,55 - Overall: 1,22 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily Нечто подобное могли применить и при "Тирпиц-блицкриг" при высадке в Англию, гипотетическую пока.
von Echenbach: Очередная версия "Кельна": Крейсер-разведчик, с уменьшенной толщиной броневого пояса до 60-30 мм и возрастанием скорости до 30 уз. ДУ ТЗА и средний вал - электродвигатель. Северный лис, аи Германия аи лг кр малый-развед laid down 1932 Displacement: 4 412 t light; 4 635 t standard; 4 878 t normal; 5 073 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (476,36 ft / 452,76 ft) x 42,65 ft x (16,40 / 16,89 ft) (145,20 m / 138,00 m) x 13,00 m x (5,00 / 5,15 m) Armament: 8 - 5,91" / 150 mm 50,0 cal guns - 109,02lbs / 49,45kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 136 lbs / 515 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,524 t each, 9,146 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 154,32 lbs / 70,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,689 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 301,84 ft / 92,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 19,69 ft / 6,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 103% of normal length Main Belt inclined 13,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 40 996 shp / 30 583 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 437 tons Complement: 291 - 379 Cost: £1,948 million / $7,793 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 340 tons, 7,0% - Guns: 320 tons, 6,6% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,4% Armour: 1 020 tons, 20,9% - Belts: 343 tons, 7,0% - Armament: 88 tons, 1,8% - Armour Deck: 568 tons, 11,6% - Conning Towers: 22 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 210 tons, 24,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 842 tons, 37,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 467 tons, 9,6% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 5 506 lbs / 2 498 Kg = 53,5 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04 Metacentric height 1,5 ft / 0,5 m Roll period: 14,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,86 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,539 / 0,544 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,62 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,07 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 33,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 43,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,64 ft / 5,07 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,5% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,5% Waterplane Area: 13 883 Square feet or 1 290 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110% Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 408 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,99 - Longitudinal: 1,98 - Overall: 1,06 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room И вариации на тему "Бруммер"- "Красный Кавказ" (тени "Фробишера-Хоукинса): 4х1 203 (аи автомат заряжания, 10 выстрелов в минуту). Скорость снижена до 29 уз. Возможна установка булей. Хеймдаль-2, аи Германия аи кр малый-развед laid down 1934 Displacement: 4 748 t light; 4 997 t standard; 5 254 t normal; 5 459 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (478,49 ft / 452,76 ft) x 45,93 ft x (16,40 / 16,85 ft) (145,84 m / 138,00 m) x 14,00 m x (5,00 / 5,14 m) Armament: 4 - 7,99" / 203 mm 50,0 cal guns - 270,21lbs / 122,57kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 345 lbs / 610 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,524 t each, 9,146 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 154,32 lbs / 70,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,689 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 301,84 ft / 92,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 19,69 ft / 6,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 103% of normal length Main Belt inclined 13,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 37 635 shp / 28 076 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 462 tons Complement: 308 - 401 Cost: £2,034 million / $8,137 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 400 tons, 7,6% - Guns: 381 tons, 7,3% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,4% Armour: 1 065 tons, 20,3% - Belts: 345 tons, 6,6% - Armament: 86 tons, 1,6% - Armour Deck: 611 tons, 11,6% - Conning Towers: 23 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 1 111 tons, 21,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 172 tons, 41,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 505 tons, 9,6% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 6 813 lbs / 3 090 Kg = 26,7 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05 Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m Roll period: 14,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,85 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,13 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,539 / 0,545 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,86 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,20 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 33,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 43,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,63 ft / 5,37 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146,0% Waterplane Area: 14 951 Square feet or 1 389 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117% Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 460 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,05 - Longitudinal: 2,28 - Overall: 1,14 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Тяжелые крейсера: 1-й проект: близок к классическому "Хиппер". 2-й проект: аи микст Карманного ЛК и корпуса Хиппер аи. Отказ от 280-мм артиллерии. Возвращение к 240-мм. Проводились дискуссии по выбору линейки калибров: предлагалось: 30-60- (доп 90 или 105) - 120 - (доп 150 - 180) - 240 (280 ???) - 360 - м.б. 420 ? Адмиралы (с 4х2 203, 30 уз. 6 ед) + 3 ед: Носорог (Слон, Буйвол), аи Германия аи тг кр рейдер laid down 1928-36 Displacement: 9 346 t light; 9 840 t standard; 10 873 t normal; 11 699 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (576,92 ft / 551,18 ft) x 55,77 ft x (22,97 / 24,36 ft) (175,84 m / 168,00 m) x 17,00 m x (7,00 / 7,42 m) Armament: 6 - 9,45" / 240 mm 50,0 cal guns - 446,53lbs / 202,54kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 943 lbs / 1 335 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,524 t each, 9,146 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 154,32 lbs / 70,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,689 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 301,84 ft / 92,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 118,11 ft / 36,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 84% of normal length Main Belt inclined 13,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 54 895 shp / 40 952 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 6 200nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 859 tons Complement: 532 - 692 Cost: £3,844 million / $15,375 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 891 tons, 8,2% - Guns: 872 tons, 8,0% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,2% Armour: 1 869 tons, 17,2% - Belts: 653 tons, 6,0% - Armament: 276 tons, 2,5% - Armour Deck: 904 tons, 8,3% - Conning Towers: 37 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 1 620 tons, 14,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 965 tons, 45,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 527 tons, 14,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 14 498 lbs / 6 576 Kg = 34,4 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03 Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 15,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,86 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,539 / 0,547 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,88 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 26,70 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 33,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 43,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,63 ft / 5,37 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,4% Waterplane Area: 22 102 Square feet or 2 053 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138% Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 754 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,37 - Longitudinal: 2,08 - Overall: 1,43 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Немного иллюстраций: 1. аи Т КР с 3х2 240 (из ШипБакет) - здесь как Носорог. 2. Древняя моя схема аи Кельн-2 к 1 МВ с 4х2 8". Почти то же для нового проекта.
von Echenbach: Освежим тему ;-) Германцы решили своим сумрачным гением пере-мудрить японцев. Попался кто-то ясновидящий чуть-чуть в кораблях - если не ясновидящий, тогда ув. коллеги укажут на "слабые звенья": Проект "броненосца" (т.ск. "карманного линкора") сделали с небольшим запасом, утолстили броню и предусмотрели возможность усиления ГК путем установки в каждой башне третьего орудия. Схема - ретирадная, 3х2 (при модернизации 3х3) 283/45-50. Скорее - /45. Похож на рис. ТКР выше см "Носорог". Но без СК. Универсальные 8х2 88 (позднее - 8х2 105), 2х3 ТА на корме + катапульта и 3-6 гидросамолетов. От самолетов можно и отказаться. "радости" - за счёт снижения дальности, что восполняется при модернизации установкой булей. laid down 1927 Displacement: 13 731 t light; 14 664 t standard; 15 765 t normal; 16 645 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (620,88 ft / 600,39 ft) x 72,18 ft x (23,62 / 24,61 ft) (189,24 m / 183,00 m) x 22,00 m x (7,20 / 7,50 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 675,51lbs / 306,40kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 16 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 6 650 lbs / 3 016 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,504 t each, 9,026 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 295,28 ft / 90,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 75,46 ft / 23,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 76% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 8,27" / 210 mm 5,51" / 140 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm 0,39" / 10 mm - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 2,36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 5,51" / 140 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 59 000 shp / 44 014 Kw = 28,00 kts Range 6 600nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 981 tons Complement: 703 - 914 Cost: £4,861 million / $19,443 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 489 tons, 9,4% - Guns: 1 470 tons, 9,3% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 4 143 tons, 26,3% - Belts: 1 126 tons, 7,1% - Armament: 1 002 tons, 6,4% - Armour Deck: 1 940 tons, 12,3% - Conning Tower: 75 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 862 tons, 11,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 088 tons, 38,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 033 tons, 12,9% Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1,0% - Hull below water: 120 tons - Hull above water: 20 tons - On freeboard deck: 10 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 22 866 lbs / 10 372 Kg = 34,1 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06 Metacentric height 3,5 ft / 1,1 m Roll period: 16,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,98 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,539 / 0,546 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,32 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,25 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 32,81 ft / 10,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Aft deck: 37,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,87 ft / 6,36 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165,2% Waterplane Area: 31 156 Square feet or 2 894 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115% Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs/sq ft or 722 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,95 - Longitudinal: 1,65 - Overall: 1,01 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
von Echenbach: Обеспечение "Зеелеве": Минные буксируемые связки с погруженными понтонами-МЗ с интервалом в 7-10-15 м. Общее количество7-9 в "обойме". глубина - от 1,5 м до 5-6 м. Буксируются катерами, ТЩ или ПЛ - версия "подвижной минной обороны", "мобильный минный барраж". Катера и ТЩ прикрываются МН и авиацией. Дополняется комплектом рубежей ПЛ и потоком ТР и десантными кораблями: катера, баржи, плашкоуты. Зоны высадки: Гастингс - Веймут, как зона приманки-отвлечения: Ярмут-Харвич? Может сгодиться и для идей аи- 1 МВ. Коллеги, по возможности, поделитесь ссылками на возможные планы англичан по отражению десанта. Макси есть.
von Echenbach: "японские" ... мотивы: или м.б. предвоплощение японской идеи перевооружения. !927... закладка тяжелых рейдеров с дизельной СУ. 1000 т, 28 уз. 54-56 000 л.с. - 3 винта, 12 000 миль на 16 уз. 3х2 6" линейно-возвышенно в носу. 1х3 280 за носовыми 6". В корме - 2ж2 (одна возвышенно) и 4х2 (по 2 на борт) за полубаком в корму - 105 (м.б. первые стабилизированные...). 12 37-мм МЗА по 6 на борт (в планах 12х2). 2х3 533 ТА на корме. 10 ГБ для "отпугивания". Бронирование: борт 30-12-, палуба 30-64, барбеты - 240, башни: 240 (лоб)-120 (бок)-60 (верх), но... с 1929 года идет неспешная постройка. И в 1931 - в строю. А в 1936-39 - перевооружение на 3х3 (заменяются носовые 150-мм) - микро-Родней, с немецким акцентом. laid down 1929 Проект нуждается в доработке... но - собственно идея. Displacement: 11 173 t light; 12 161 t standard; 14 648 t normal; 16 637 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (622,85 ft / 597,11 ft) x 75,46 ft x (19,69 / 21,85 ft) (189,84 m / 182,00 m) x 23,00 m x (6,00 / 6,66 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 50,0 cal guns - 709,07lbs / 321,63kg shells, 170 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1929 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 1 raised mount 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount - superfiring 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 6 828 lbs / 3 097 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,512 t each, 9,074 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 351,05 ft / 107,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 206,69 ft / 63,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 39,37 ft / 12,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 90% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 9,45" / 240 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm - 3rd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 2,01" / 51 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 58 253 shp / 43 456 Kw = 28,00 kts Range 12 000nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4 477 tons Complement: 665 - 865 Cost: £5,303 million / $21,211 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 694 tons, 11,6% - Guns: 1 675 tons, 11,4% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 3 995 tons, 27,3% - Belts: 1 062 tons, 7,3% - Armament: 1 358 tons, 9,3% - Armour Deck: 1 499 tons, 10,2% - Conning Towers: 76 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 789 tons, 12,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 695 tons, 25,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 475 tons, 23,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 13 991 lbs / 6 346 Kg = 20,9 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17 Metacentric height 4,4 ft / 1,3 m Roll period: 15,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,82 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,16 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,578 / 0,591 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,91 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,17 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 33,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 42,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 28,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,94 ft / 6,38 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 192,9% Waterplane Area: 33 630 Square feet or 3 124 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104% Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 476 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,61 - Longitudinal: 0,99 - Overall: 0,64 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
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