Рейхкригсмарине

Форум » Отдел альтпроектов второго порядка » Рейхкригсмарине » Ответить

Рейхкригсмарине

von Echenbach: Попытаемся рассмотреть возможные варианты развития или совершенствования кораблей и/или тактики немецкого флота в 1939-1945, м.б. с изначалья - с 1920. Враг был силен, умен и очень хорошо обучен и оснащён. М.б. некоторые идеи можно будет взять на вооружение АИ ВМС РККА СССР. Например: ЛгКР оснастить булями и усилить ПВО ТКА (S) добавить бугельные или трубные ТА за основными (носовыми). Старые броненосцы - как "большие КЛ", корабли поддержки Лг. сил и, - особенно6 ПВО (до 24 88-105мм) ВМС Авиация - ? Уклон в Авианосцы - ? Ведрение "КЛ" - ? Методы применения ВспКР - ? Средства РЭ обнаружения - м.б. не трогать?

Ответов - 72, стр: 1 2 3 4 All

von Echenbach: Пан директор пишет: а как насчет Больших Подводных Лодок для немцев. - Что-то в этом есть... :-) Как транспортные лодки снабжения. В дополнение к системе снабжения с всп.КР (если они только как снабженцы, в т.ч. сменные команды).

von Echenbach: Версия возможной аи-инкарнации веймарского флота - с неким интересом о возможном аи-ответе англичан и французов. До аи-1926 года - медленное верстание различных проектов. Далее - МН - пост-Ягуары типа "а"- с 3х2 88 универсальной установкой и в дальнейшем - её стабилизация (совместные разработки с Хаземеер и Бофорсом), тип "б" - с 2х2 или 3х2 105 и 3х3/2х4 тас голландцами - проработки ПЛ. S- и R-boot - небольшие колебания, как и с ТЩ. Для МН прорабатывали дизельную ГЭУ - 3 корабля. Крейсера: Первый вариант - практически реальные "К" - 2 ед, но с дизельной ГЭУ, последующие - при паротурбинной ГЭУ ГК означен в 9 (3х3) 6", по факту при смене башен - 3х3 8" - 4+4 ед. В производстве с 1929 года. Большой крейсер (второй вариант) - в формально 10 000т при реальных 15000 т получили сверхтяжелый КР с 3х3 280, названы "броненосцами" - 3+3 ед. В постройке с 1932 года. Эсминцы: 1) тяжелый - 2600 т, 32 уз, 4х1 6"(автомат 3/4) и 3-5х2 88. + ледовый пояс и палуба. 1-2х4 та - 12 ед.; 2) океанский (4/или больше с дизельными ГЭУ /дальность до 6-7 000 миль/ + 18-24 ед. ТПЗУ) с 4х1 105 , 4-6 37 и 3х4 та, Этакий призрак Акидзуки :-) Германский "Акидзуки", laid down 1934, Displacement: 1 853 t light; 1 932 t standard; 2 218 t normal; 2 446 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (379,55 ft / 364,17 ft) x 36,09 ft x (13,12 / 14,04 ft) (115,69 m / 111,00 m) x 11,00 m x (4,00 / 4,28 m) Armament: 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 200 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 291 lbs / 132 kg Main Torpedoes 12 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,532 t each, 18,387 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 145,51 lbs / 66,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 1,299 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 0,47" / 12 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 139% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 2nd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 0,47" / 12 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,71" / 18 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 3 shafts, 29 917 shp / 22 318 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 514 tons Complement: 161 - 210 Cost: £0,979 million / $3,918 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 95 tons, 4,3% - Guns: 57 tons, 2,6% - Weapons: 38 tons, 1,7% Armour: 118 tons, 5,3% - Belts: 40 tons, 1,8% - Armament: 11 tons, 0,5% - Armour Deck: 65 tons, 2,9% - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 861 tons, 38,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 780 tons, 35,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 364 tons, 16,4% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 1 688 lbs / 766 Kg = 47,8 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,35 Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m Roll period: 11,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,16 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,06 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,450 / 0,464 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,09 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,90 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Average freeboard: 14,79 ft / 4,51 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 132,8% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99,2% Waterplane Area: 8 708 Square feet or 809 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112% Structure weight / hull surface area: 51 lbs/sq ft or 249 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,82 - Longitudinal: 2,29 - Overall: 0,91 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Warning: Wrong mount for rapid fire gun - 2nd Battery Германский тяжелый "Z" /S-150m: laid down 1928, Displacement: 1 801 t light; 1 894 t standard; 2 004 t normal; 2 093 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (374,23 ft / 357,61 ft) x 29,53 ft x (14,76 / 15,20 ft) (114,07 m / 109,00 m) x 9,00 m x (4,50 / 4,63 m) Armament: 4 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 3 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 558 lbs / 253 kg Main Torpedoes 8 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,508 t each, 12,066 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 145,51 lbs / 66,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,650 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 1,26" / 32 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 113% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,35" / 9 mm 0,20" / 5 mm - 2nd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 0,71" / 18 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,71" / 18 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32 174 shp / 24 002 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 198 tons Complement: 149 - 194 Cost: £0,819 million / $3,277 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 123 tons, 6,2% - Guns: 98 tons, 4,9% - Weapons: 25 tons, 1,2% Armour: 173 tons, 8,6% - Belts: 86 tons, 4,3% - Armament: 8 tons, 0,4% - Armour Deck: 76 tons, 3,8% - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 893 tons, 44,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 612 tons, 30,5% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 204 tons, 10,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 796 lbs / 361 Kg = 7,4 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16 Metacentric height 1,1 ft / 0,3 m Roll period: 12,0 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,76 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,14 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,450 / 0,456 Length to Beam Ratio: 12,11 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,40 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 36,00%, 10,83 ft / 3,30 m, 10,83 ft / 3,30 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 10,83 ft / 3,30 m, 12,14 ft / 3,70 m - Average freeboard: 13,97 ft / 4,26 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 157,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94,8% Waterplane Area: 6 997 Square feet or 650 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 82% Structure weight / hull surface area: 44 lbs/sq ft or 213 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,69 - Longitudinal: 2,62 - Overall: 0,79 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Супер-Кёльн ЛгТКР: laid down 1927, Displacement: 6 388 t light; 6 786 t standard; 7 071 t normal; 7 300 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (515,42 ft / 495,41 ft) x 54,46 ft x (19,69 / 20,13 ft) (157,10 m / 151,00 m) x 16,60 m x (6,00 / 6,13 m) Armament: 9 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 180 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward 1 raised mount 12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1927 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 2 461 lbs / 1 116 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,504 t each, 6,017 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 102% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,18" / 30 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm - Conning towers: Forward 1,57" / 40 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 48 226 shp / 35 977 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 2 600nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 515 tons Complement: 385 - 501 Cost: £2,405 million / $9,621 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 693 tons, 9,8% - Guns: 681 tons, 9,6% - Weapons: 12 tons, 0,2% Armour: 965 tons, 13,6% - Belts: 315 tons, 4,5% - Armament: 260 tons, 3,7% - Armour Deck: 378 tons, 5,3% - Conning Tower: 12 tons, 0,2% Machinery: 1 522 tons, 21,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 208 tons, 45,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 683 tons, 9,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 8 102 lbs / 3 675 Kg = 31,7 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03 Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,6 m Roll period: 15,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,97 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,466 / 0,471 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,10 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,70 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Average freeboard: 18,44 ft / 5,62 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152,5% Waterplane Area: 18 125 Square feet or 1 684 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115% Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 602 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,04 - Longitudinal: 2,20 - Overall: 1,12 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Warning: Wrong mount for rapid fire gun - 3rd Battery "Броненосцы": laid down 1931, Displacement: 11 853 t light; 12 767 t standard; 14 580 t normal; 16 031 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (561,75 ft / 534,78 ft) x 72,18 ft x (23,95 / 25,76 ft) (171,22 m / 163,00 m) x 22,00 m x (7,30 / 7,85 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 675,51lbs / 306,40kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1931 Model 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 16 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 6 662 lbs / 3 022 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,520 t each, 6,081 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 314,96 ft / 96,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 144,36 ft / 44,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 75,46 ft / 23,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 91% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77 284 shp / 57 654 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 12 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3 264 tons Complement: 663 - 862 Cost: £5,824 million / $23,295 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 486 tons, 10,2% - Guns: 1 474 tons, 10,1% - Weapons: 12 tons, 0,1% Armour: 2 494 tons, 17,1% - Belts: 1 077 tons, 7,4% - Armament: 617 tons, 4,2% - Armour Deck: 755 tons, 5,2% - Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 2 311 tons, 15,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 562 tons, 38,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 727 tons, 18,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 19 180 lbs / 8 700 Kg = 28,6 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13 Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 15,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,552 / 0,564 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,41 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 26,88 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 19,00%, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Aft deck: 37,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 23,88 ft / 7,28 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 179,6% Waterplane Area: 28 099 Square feet or 2 610 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114% Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 715 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,90 - Longitudinal: 2,45 - Overall: 1,00 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Warning: Wrong mount for rapid fire gun - 3rd Battery Вместе с голландцами разрабатывают ГидроавиаКР (+ Швеция) и ТР.Снабжения.

dr5r: von Echenbach пишет: при паротурбинной ГЭУ ГК означен в 9 (3х3) 6", по факту при смене башен - 3х3 8" Если 8" то, наверно, всё-таки надо 3х2. Или вспоминать 8.3" (210 мм) к ним же, или 3х3 17 см Дальность хода суперКёльнов никакущая.

von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: Дальность хода суперКёльнов никакущая. Почти как в реале. Предназначены для действий в ближней зоне в составе крейсерских эскадр - до 400-600 миль, борьба с патрулями и обеспечение действий Океанских рейдеров, которые - близки к аи-Бисмарку, но много тоньше защита. Малая дальность позволяла получить снисходительность Антанты в "нарушениях Версаля", ибо возможность организовать танкерное снабжение в море - не приняли во внимание. dr5r пишет: Если 8" то, наверно, всё-таки надо 3х2. Или вспоминать 8.3" (210 мм) к ним же, или 3х3 17 см 17 см вспоминались, отвергнуты как "невпечатляющие", 21 см - вызывающее нарушение м.б. А по 3х3 203 - так и жертва скоростью, мощностью и дальностью. И при проектировании уже расчёты на 3х3 8", 6" - фактически макеты, для апробации корпусных конструкционных технологий. :-) Авантюризм полный. После появления "броненосцев" англичане начали что-то подозревать (больше авианосцев и м.б. "Центурион" третьей генерации - с 12", близок к Аляскам?. Тут-то и договорные ограничения уходят - году в 1935-36. А французы остались спокойны - их Дюнкерки вполне неплохо выглядели. Конвои в СРЗМ старые дредноуты сопровождать будут.

von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: вспоминать 8.3" (210 мм) Утро вечера мудренее... )-; 210 - при некоторой экономии на разработке проекта модернизации (аи - новая башня, тяжелый снаряд в 150 кг, 6 выстр/мин, 820 м/сек) вполне подходят. Даже при хорошей работе англ. разведки -"... германцы строят легкие-тяжелые крейсера прибрежного действия, для прикрытия лёгких сил, ТЩ и ПЛ с усилением этих отрядов "броненосцами": что будет требовать привлечения ЛК и ЛнКР в состав ударной группы и формировать группу прикрытия из ЛК с авианосцем при атаке. Цель подобной комплектации - приближение наших (англ.) дозоров корабельных групп на 200-400 миль к побережью Германии и оптимизации противодействия комплексом разнородных сил в комбинированных операциях (набег мз-кр в 1918, Гельголанд, Отранто)...". Донесение от 0077-13аи. Меморандум 1 морскому лорду от МИ-6. на полях меморандума - рекомендовать премьеру не создавать политической проблемы, поскольку при утверждении нашей кораблестроительной программы немецкие проекты не дают стратегического преимущества.

dr5r: von Echenbach пишет: Почти как в реале. Предназначены для действий в ближней зоне в составе крейсерских эскадр Изначально Кёльны -- лёгкие рейдеры, для чего, собственно, и снабжались комбинированной ГЭУ. Только уже после постройки выяснилось, что обеспечить требуемую дальность не могут -- неверны оказались расчёты; а высокотемпературным охладом дизелей и отработанными газами подогревать котлы для быстрого старта турбин, видимо, не смогли или не догадались.

von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: Изначально Кёльны -- лёгкие рейдеры :-) Бы несколько не согласился. Некоторые рейдерские, скорее набеговые функции могли выполнять: призрак Дуврского барража / Отранто / подвиги Бруммер-Бремзе. Возможно, при удачной системе снабжения могли повторить приключения Карлсруэ и Эмдена. Больше подходят для лидирования больших ЭМ, но догматическое наименование "крейсер" связывало степени идей применения - к нашей пользе. Есть предположения о несколько неправильном применении - похожем на судьбу "богинь".

von Echenbach: Ещё одна из версий развития "веймарско-версальского" флота: Старые броненосцы как опытные корабли - 1.пара (Шлезвиг-Гольштейн) 2х3 280, 8х2 105 или на 1928 год 88-мм, 8 37, 17 уз - 3 винта, дизель-генераторы и электромоторы. 22 000 миль. 2. 19-21 уз, 4-12 000 миль, 3 3х3 280, 6х2 105, 17-19 уз. Крейсера лёгкие, первая пара Нюрнберг - как есть 6300 т, 32 уз, 3х3 150, 3х2 105 или 88, 4х3 та. (4х2 650-мм та Супер лонг-ланс) Электро и дизеля, как и трёхорудийные башни - для проработки/отработки тех. решений в постройке карманных линкоров, в данном варианте аи: 3х3 280, 6х2 105, 4-6 гидросамолетов, 28-30 уз.

Пан директор: У немцв было всего 6 легких крейсеров: Эмден, 3 крейсера типа К, Лейпциг и Нюрнберг, однофамилец Славы Макарова. При этом Нюрнберг заложили в ноябре 1933 года. А дальше немцев понесло. Я бы продолжил серию 6000 тонных крейсеров дальше, закладывая по 1 кораблю каждые год-два. При этом в 1936 году уже можно закладывать первый корабль 4х2х128-мм. Именно в этом году начали проектировать 128-мм немецкие зенитки Я думаю что параметры будут такими - 6000 тонн (может и меньше), силовая установка от эсминца мощностью 70000 л.с. (либо трехвальная полуторная версия, мощностью 100 тысяч лошадиных сил), 4х2х128-мм установки, 4х2х37-мм автомата, 6-8 счетверенных 20-мм установок, 2 торпедных аппарата. Бронирование - способное держать 120-127-130-мм бронебойные снаряды эсминцев.

von Echenbach: 4х2 128 2 и пр. на 6000 т - недовооружен, если только не ставить задачи рейдера в 8000 миль на 14 с поясом и палубой/башнями в 18-22 мм // прикрытия тяжелого рейдера на выходе-прибытии от ЭМ или ПВО. По факту - усиленный броне-лидер. в 4,5-5 тт - аи-Ниобе laid down 1935, Displacement: 4 209 t light; 4 383 t standard; 4 742 t normal; 5 030 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (466,13 ft / 446,19 ft) x 52,49 ft x (16,40 / 17,07 ft) (142,08 m / 136,00 m) x 16,00 m x (5,00 / 5,20 m) Armament: 8 - 5,04" / 128 mm 50,0 cal guns - 67,74lbs / 30,73kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 6 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 550 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 850 per gun Machine guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 553 lbs / 251 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,536 t each, 9,218 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 94,80 lbs / 43,00 kg Depth Charges + 12 reloads - 0,592 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,60" / 66 mm 305,12 ft / 93,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 105% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,26" / 32 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 1,73" / 44 mm 2nd: 0,35" / 9 mm - - 3rd: 0,20" / 5 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,73" / 44 mm Forecastle: 0,87" / 22 mm Quarter deck: 0,87" / 22 mm - Conning towers: Forward 1,73" / 44 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 47 383 shp / 35 348 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 647 tons Complement: 285 - 371 Cost: £2,006 million / $8,024 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 210 tons, 4,4% - Guns: 190 tons, 4,0% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,4% Armour: 768 tons, 16,2% - Belts: 214 tons, 4,5% - Armament: 96 tons, 2,0% - Armour Deck: 447 tons, 9,4% - Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0,2% Machinery: 1 346 tons, 28,4% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 885 tons, 39,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 533 tons, 11,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 6 147 lbs / 2 788 Kg = 96,1 x 5,0 " / 128 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23 Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,8 m Roll period: 13,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,24 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,432 / 0,440 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,50 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 22,96 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 18,04 ft / 5,50 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167,0% Waterplane Area: 15 069 Square feet or 1 400 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118% Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 405 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,92 - Longitudinal: 2,01 - Overall: 1,00 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Наверное, есть и другие варианты проекта.

Пан директор: von Echenbach пишет: 4х2 128 2 и пр. на 6000 т - недовооружен, Длина ствола у 12.8 cm FlaK 40 была 61 калибр, у противотанковой 12.8 cm Pak 44 - 55 калибров. Плюс стабилизация и бронирование. У спаренной морской установки будет масса под 100 тонн. Плюс большой боекомплект из-за высокой скорострельности. Ну и мощность машин ставьте нормальную. Да и бронирование тоже. 6000 тонн легко наберете.

von Echenbach: аи-Шарнхорст 1936 с 12 / 4х3 / 283-мм и 20 /10х2 / 105-мм. laid down 1936, Displacement: 31 192 t light; 32 753 t standard; 35 781 t normal; 38 204 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (778,84 ft / 754,59 ft) x 98,43 ft x (31,17 / 32,82 ft) (237,39 m / 230,00 m) x 30,00 m x (9,50 / 10,00 m) Armament: 12 - 11,14" / 283 mm 52,0 cal guns - 738,46lbs / 334,96kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 16 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 550 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 raised mounts 4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 2 raised mounts Weight of broadside 9 599 lbs / 4 354 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,540 t each, 9,242 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 123,46 lbs / 56,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,551 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 98,43 ft / 30,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 67% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 12,6" / 320 mm 2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - 4th: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 0,79" / 20 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm - Conning towers: Forward 8,27" / 210 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 156 436 shp / 116 701 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 10 000nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 5 451 tons Complement: 1 300 - 1 691 Cost: £14,374 million / $57,496 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 2 518 tons, 7,0% - Guns: 2 499 tons, 7,0% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 7 147 tons, 20,0% - Belts: 2 135 tons, 6,0% - Armament: 2 077 tons, 5,8% - Armour Deck: 2 742 tons, 7,7% - Conning Tower: 193 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 4 389 tons, 12,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 17 139 tons, 47,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 589 tons, 12,8% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 53 315 lbs / 24 183 Kg = 77,1 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 3,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22 Metacentric height 7,0 ft / 2,1 m Roll period: 15,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,541 / 0,549 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,67 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 27,47 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,72 ft / 6,32 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146,8% Waterplane Area: 51 398 Square feet or 4 775 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140% Structure weight / hull surface area: 253 lbs/sq ft or 1 237 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,50 - Longitudinal: 1,83 - Overall: 1,53 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room аи-Шарнхорост-35 с 15 (5х3) 11" схема Такао-Бруклин: laid down 1935, Displacement: 26 785 t light; 28 248 t standard; 30 906 t normal; 33 033 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (786,04 ft / 761,15 ft) x 98,43 ft x (29,53 / 31,03 ft) (239,59 m / 232,00 m) x 30,00 m x (9,00 / 9,46 m) Armament: 15 - 11,14" / 283 mm 52,0 cal guns - 738,46lbs / 334,96kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 20 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 raised mounts - superfiring 16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 1,71lbs / 0,78kg shells, 550 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model 8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 11 817 lbs / 5 360 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,536 t each, 9,218 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 112,44 lbs / 51,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,502 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 13,4" / 340 mm 393,70 ft / 120,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 39,37 ft / 12,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 80% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 13,4" / 340 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 13,4" / 340 mm 2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 11,02" / 280 mm, Aft 3,54" / 90 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 139 219 shp / 103 858 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 9 500nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4 784 tons Complement: 1 165 - 1 515 Cost: £14,041 million / $56,163 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 3 110 tons, 10,1% - Guns: 3 091 tons, 10,0% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 8 608 tons, 27,9% - Belts: 2 545 tons, 8,2% - Armament: 2 764 tons, 8,9% - Armour Deck: 2 991 tons, 9,7% - Conning Towers: 309 tons, 1,0% Machinery: 3 955 tons, 12,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 11 111 tons, 36,0% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 122 tons, 13,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 39 121 lbs / 17 745 Kg = 56,6 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 3,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11 Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m Roll period: 16,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,07 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,489 / 0,497 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,73 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 27,59 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 19,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 33,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 34,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,66 ft / 6,30 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157,4% Waterplane Area: 49 421 Square feet or 4 591 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108% Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 892 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,98 - Longitudinal: 1,24 - Overall: 1,00 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room

полная версия страницы