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АИ Франция 20-30

von Echenbach: АИ - отказ от Мажино. Танковые армии и маневренные операции. Фортификационные узлы. Флот: Развитие Авиакрейсеров - 6 шт в 12000т, 30 уз, 40 аппаратов тяжелее воздуха. Самолеты - гидро: Истребители-бомбардировщики ( до 500 кг) и разведчики-бомбардировщики-торпедоносцы (до 2 торпед или до 2 000 кг). Какие - ? Дюнкерки сохранены. Крейсера - ? Контр-миноносцы - ?

Ответов - 46, стр: 1 2 3 All

von Echenbach: Адмирал Бугенвиль, Франция Авиакрейсер laid down 1930 Displacement: 10 286 t light; 10 658 t standard; 11 815 t normal; 12 740 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (532,96 ft / 524,93 ft) x 55,77 ft x (24,61 / 26,16 ft) (162,45 m / 160,00 m) x 17,00 m x (7,50 / 7,97 m) Armament: 16 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 450 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread 16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 1,67lbs / 0,76kg shells, 850 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 519 lbs / 235 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,01" / 51 mm 393,70 ft / 120,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 115% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,98" / 25 mm - - 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 1,46" / 37 mm Forecastle: 0,47" / 12 mm Quarter deck: 1,46" / 37 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 3,86" / 98 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric motors, 4 shafts, 90 539 shp / 67 542 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 17,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 2 082 tons Complement: 566 - 736 Cost: £3,220 million / $12,882 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 102 tons, 0,9% - Guns: 102 tons, 0,9% Armour: 980 tons, 8,3% - Belts: 315 tons, 2,7% - Armament: 23 tons, 0,2% - Armour Deck: 546 tons, 4,6% - Conning Towers: 96 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 2 744 tons, 23,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 410 tons, 28,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 529 tons, 12,9% Miscellaneous weights: 3 050 tons, 25,8% - Hull below water: 2 800 tons - Hull above water: 200 tons - On freeboard deck: 50 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 12 717 lbs / 5 768 Kg = 416,8 x 3,9 " / 100 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 13,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has low forecastle, an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,574 / 0,582 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,41 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 22,91 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 15,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Average freeboard: 29,43 ft / 8,97 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 217,6% Waterplane Area: 20 898 Square feet or 1 941 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121% Structure weight / hull surface area: 72 lbs/sq ft or 351 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,70 - Longitudinal: 4,61 - Overall: 0,85 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea - как поправить? Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather 4-6 катапульт, 50 самолетов (гидро): 30 бомб-торп, 20 и-б. Действия в районах с некоторой сетью гидроавиа-аэростанций. В серии 2 корабля. Имеется некоторый запас для модернизации: були и вторая броневая палуба. Изменение палубы (???) в полетную для амфибий или колесных - обеспечение посадки.

von Echenbach: АИ контр-миноносцы*: 1800т, (полное до 3200), 32-31 уз (решили реальные скорости применять), Отказ от линейно-возвышенных орудий. 6 - 138мм (6х1) универсальность - ??? гл. сомнительна, 3 парных плутонга на одной высоте надстройки линейно-эшелонно на ДП. 3-2 плутонга ЗА 6х1 76мм за ГК, перпендикулярно ГК, можно возвышенно. И 6х1 37мм. 2х3 ТА, 12 ГБ. 60 МЗ. Обшивка по ВЛ 20мм, палуба - 18мм, локальное бронирование - 20мм.

Пан директор: Идея такой альтернативы, кстати, 10 из 10. Только по флот у французов и так все было хорошо


GromoBoy: А с чего упор на авиакрейсера?

von Echenbach: В начале 30-х, до 35-36 гидроавиа ещё могла "соперничать" с колесной авианосной. М.б. франки смогли БЫ ещё улучшить аппараты до убирающейся подпоплавковой/подкорпусной малой колесной системы. М.б. убирались бы и колеса, и прижимались поплавки - : Тема для АИ-исследований. :-). Самолеты (гидро) т.о. можно было бы применять более свободно, в т.ч. и на базовые ВПП (скорее с твердым покрытием). И, - двойственная тема развития АИ (и для СССР, и для Франции): малые скоростные торпеды, для авиации и москитов, м.б. и для ПЛ - против ПВО-ПЛО и малых быстроходных целей. 14-16 дм, 50-80 БЧ, 30-60 уз (10-4 каб), 600-800 кг (меньше - сомнительно), возможно - кислородные. Углубление 0.7 - 3,0 м. Ограничение - врлнение? Даже попадание в ЭМ/лидер или ЛгКР/ТР вполне сможет причинить заметные неприятности эскорту. Легкие же торпеды носители могли бы брать в 2-4 раза больше. Т.е. в максимальном варианте: катер - 4-6 с возможностью перезарядки, самолет - 2-4. Есть вероятность, что увлекутся и начнут изобретать многоствольные ТА с количеством Торп. труб до 6-12 :-)

von Echenbach: АИ проект КР для стран не участвующих в Вашингтоно-ЛондОнских соглашениях: или тип аи-Шанзи со следами австро-венгерского БРКР "Санкт Георг" аи Шанзи Надежда, Пхукет аи Франция Болгария Сиам аи ЛГ БРКР laid down 1931, можно и 1911 год взять. Displacement: 5 515 t light; 5 828 t standard; 6 047 t normal; 6 222 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (418,13 ft / 406,82 ft) x 49,21 ft x (19,69 / 20,12 ft) (127,45 m / 124,00 m) x 15,00 m x (6,00 / 6,13 m) Armament: 2 - 9,45" / 240 mm 45,0 cal guns - 425,39lbs / 192,95kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1931 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 8 - 6,46" / 164 mm 45,0 cal guns - 135,73lbs / 61,57kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 12 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model 6 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 raised mounts - superfiring Weight of broadside 2 306 lbs / 1 046 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 0,993 t each, 3,971 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 6 reloads - 0,472 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 98,43 ft / 30,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 78,74 ft / 24,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 87% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 3rd: 0,59" / 15 mm - 0,59" / 15 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 0,59" / 15 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 29 860 shp / 22 276 Kw = 26,00 kts Range 2 800nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 394 tons Complement: 342 - 445 Cost: £2,036 million / $8,146 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 485 tons, 8,0% - Guns: 479 tons, 7,9% - Weapons: 6 tons, 0,1% Armour: 1 310 tons, 21,7% - Belts: 595 tons, 9,8% - Armament: 115 tons, 1,9% - Armour Deck: 571 tons, 9,4% - Conning Towers: 30 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 893 tons, 14,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 827 tons, 46,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 532 tons, 8,8% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 081 lbs / 4 119 Kg = 21,5 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08 Metacentric height 2,0 ft / 0,6 m Roll period: 14,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,85 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,17 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,537 / 0,541 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,27 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,78 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,83 ft / 5,44 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128,1% Waterplane Area: 14 141 Square feet or 1 314 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134% Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 631 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,29 - Longitudinal: 3,78 - Overall: 1,44 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Инженер Сидоров: Интересный крейсерок, не исключены российские корни. Проект вполне мог выйти году так к 1914-му из недр Морской Технической Канцелярии как развитие "Баянцев" и иметь ГК или 1х2-229/45, или даже новую метрическую 1х2-250/50 (либо 2х2-190/55 в оконечностях), СК - 4-5х2 - 140/50 (0-1 в корме, по 2 по бортам), универсальные - 6-8х2 - или 87/45 Барановского-Меллера (удачный по баллистике крупносерийный ствол противоминного калибра обр. 1890 года на противоаэропланном станке обр. 1915 года), или метрические 100/50 ПОЗ. Только водоизмещение будет где-то ближе к 7-8 кт и скорость 28-29 узлов. Чисто как экспортный на мирное время вариант для дружественных стран - в российском флоте ("Альтернатива-38") подобные корабли не будут востребованы - для разведки несколько тихоходны, для прикрытия линейных сил от миноносцев - слишком низкоскорострельное вооружение, ну а для истребления вражеской торговли - подводные лодки существуют.

von Echenbach: Инженер Сидоров пишет: Точно! Что-то от балтийских императоров-таранов (Николай 1).

Инженер Сидоров: von Echenbach пишет: Точно! Что-то от балтийских императоров-таранов (Николай 1). Ну да, от балтийских "баранов" (armoured ram - броненосный баран) корешки проекта и растут. С новым вооружением, броней Круппа и паровыми турбинами.

von Echenbach: Ещё одна "французская" идея: На 1898 год, параллельно с Монкальмами появляется проект "среднего" броненосного крейсера, с приветом "Импербюзу" и "Нахимову" - 6000 т. 23 уз, борт - 120, палуба - 80. 4-240 мм ромбом, в батарейной палубе 12-10-8 100-мм. Пока без деталей. "Крейсер Леванта" - т.е. Средиземного моря (Турвиль. Д'Артаньян, Дюма и др.)

von Echenbach: Немного ранее...аи Франция 1910. Проект крейсера-разведчика. Обсуждались: 4х2 (Клебер схема), 5х2 (Анри-Клебер) и 4х2 (кормовые возвышенно, при общей линейной схеме) - 120-мм (уменьшили 138-мм) или оставили 138-мм . ТА - по 1 двухтрубному на борт. ПМК - 4 64-мм на борт 1. 120-мм ГК. аи Шанзи- 1 МВ, аи Франция Enter ship type laid down 1911 Displacement: 3 140 t light; 3 253 t standard; 3 499 t normal; 3 696 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (357,97 ft / 351,05 ft) x 42,65 ft x (14,76 / 15,42 ft) (109,11 m / 107,00 m) x 13,00 m x (4,50 / 4,70 m) Armament: 8 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1911 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 8 - 2,52" / 64,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 8,07lbs / 3,66kg shells, 200 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1911 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas Weight of broadside 490 lbs / 222 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,775 t each, 3,098 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 246,06 ft / 75,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 98,43 ft / 30,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 108% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,26" / 32 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,26" / 32 mm - Conning towers: Forward 1,57" / 40 mm, Aft 0,79" / 20 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 25 121 shp / 18 740 Kw = 26,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 443 tons Complement: 226 - 295 Cost: £0,297 million / $1,187 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 141 tons, 4,0% - Guns: 135 tons, 3,9% - Weapons: 6 tons, 0,2% Armour: 792 tons, 22,6% - Belts: 373 tons, 10,7% - Armament: 161 tons, 4,6% - Armour Deck: 246 tons, 7,0% - Conning Towers: 12 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 1 020 tons, 29,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 187 tons, 33,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 359 tons, 10,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 3 848 lbs / 1 745 Kg = 73,0 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15 Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m Roll period: 13,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,16 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,554 / 0,560 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,23 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18,74 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,91 ft / 5,16 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,4% Waterplane Area: 10 488 Square feet or 974 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108% Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 333 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,88 - Longitudinal: 2,63 - Overall: 0,98 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room 2. 138-мм ГК аи Шанзи- 1 МВ, аи Франция Enter ship type laid down 1911 Displacement: 3 246 t light; 3 380 t standard; 3 630 t normal; 3 830 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (371,09 ft / 364,17 ft) x 42,65 ft x (14,76 / 15,41 ft) (113,11 m / 111,00 m) x 13,00 m x (4,50 / 4,70 m) Armament: 8 - 5,43" / 138 mm 45,0 cal guns - 80,87lbs / 36,68kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1911 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 8 - 2,52" / 64,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 8,07lbs / 3,66kg shells, 200 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1911 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas Weight of broadside 712 lbs / 323 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,775 t each, 3,098 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 255,91 ft / 78,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 82,02 ft / 25,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 26,25 ft / 8,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 108% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,26" / 32 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,26" / 32 mm - Conning towers: Forward 1,57" / 40 mm, Aft 0,79" / 20 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 25 091 shp / 18 718 Kw = 26,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 450 tons Complement: 233 - 303 Cost: £0,321 million / $1,284 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 203 tons, 5,6% - Guns: 197 tons, 5,4% - Weapons: 6 tons, 0,2% Armour: 826 tons, 22,8% - Belts: 375 tons, 10,3% - Armament: 184 tons, 5,1% - Armour Deck: 256 tons, 7,0% - Conning Towers: 12 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 1 018 tons, 28,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 198 tons, 33,0% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 384 tons, 10,6% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 3 611 lbs / 1 638 Kg = 45,0 x 5,4 " / 138 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11 Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m Roll period: 13,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,21 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,554 / 0,560 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,54 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,08 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,91 ft / 5,16 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140,4% Waterplane Area: 10 881 Square feet or 1 011 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104% Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 333 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,83 - Longitudinal: 2,42 - Overall: 0,92 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

GromoBoy: Скорее, 138 мм. Водоизмещение не маловато? Разведчику нужен радиус. И скорость бы хоть на узел поднять.

von Echenbach: Если поднять скорость - агрегаты ДУ (КМУ) не вписываются в параматры турбин дредноутов. Уже и так допущено увеличение мощности. Отказался от трех винтов. По дальности - назначение - для эскадры, ближняя разведка, передовой дозор при отрядах БРКР и борьба с МН и ЛгКР неприятеля. Дальняя разведка - БРКР большие. Вполне конкурентоспособные относительно соперников. И от дредноутов уходят. Размер - экономия. Хотя бы 3 корабля построить.

dr5r: Близкие родственники моего "Гостомысла"?

von Echenbach: Вполне вероятно. :-) идеи витают и пересекаются. Кстати, скорость аи-Шанзи 1910 обр можно и увеличить/ и три винта поставить. По мощности КМУ (ДУ-ЭУ) будет приближаться к таковой у "Курбэ", м.б. , более лёгкая. На один винт у "Курбе" приходится 7000 л.с. турбины/котлов. У аи-кр - ? около 12-13 000 л.с.

von Echenbach: Легкие линейные Крейсера Французской республики. По водоизмещению суммарному входят в пределы Вашингтонских и Лондонских соглашений. Предназначены для противодействия итальянским, японским и немецким кораблям и класса ЛнКР и ТКР/КармЛК. аи Дюнкерк-2 ЛГ, аи Франция аи ЛгЛнКР laid down 1932 Displacement: 17 051 t light; 18 118 t standard; 19 576 t normal; 20 742 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (597,43 ft / 574,15 ft) x 85,30 ft x (26,25 / 27,41 ft) (182,10 m / 175,00 m) x 26,00 m x (8,00 / 8,36 m) Armament: 4 - 15,00" / 381 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1 701,89lbs / 771,96kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1932 Model 1 x 4-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft 12 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 1 x 4-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount - superfiring 12 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 8 486 lbs / 3 849 kg Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 110,23 lbs / 50,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,492 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 285,43 ft / 87,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 272,31 ft / 83,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 76% of normal length Main Belt inclined 17,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 11,0" / 280 mm 2nd: 5,08" / 129 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm 0,39" / 10 mm 0,79" / 20 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 10,24" / 260 mm, Aft 0,79" / 20 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 78 400 shp / 58 486 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 6 600nm at 15,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 2 624 tons Complement: 826 - 1 075 Cost: £7,703 million / $30,813 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 821 tons, 9,3% - Guns: 1 821 tons, 9,3% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 5 774 tons, 29,5% - Belts: 2 392 tons, 12,2% - Armament: 1 056 tons, 5,4% - Armour Deck: 2 154 tons, 11,0% - Conning Towers: 173 tons, 0,9% Machinery: 2 314 tons, 11,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 996 tons, 35,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 580 tons, 13,2% Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 0,5% - Hull below water: 60 tons - Hull above water: 20 tons - On freeboard deck: 10 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 26 612 lbs / 12 071 Kg = 15,8 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 3,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22 Metacentric height 5,7 ft / 1,7 m Roll period: 15,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,54 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,533 / 0,541 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,73 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,16 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 32,81 ft / 10,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 33,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 36,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,57 ft / 6,57 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164,1% Waterplane Area: 35 010 Square feet or 3 252 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109% Structure weight / hull surface area: 159 lbs/sq ft or 774 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,85 - Longitudinal: 1,95 - Overall: 0,92 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Дюнкерк, Страсбург, Верден, Брест. Проект требует шлифовки. применение 4-х орудийные башни в проекте носит экспериментальный характер, на Страсбурге экспериментальные 152-мм универсального действия. 3-6 автожиров (бипланная схема,1,8-2,6 т, 2х600 л.с., 250 км-ч, 4-6 часов полета, высота - до 3000 м, 2 13-мм носовых пулемета, до 20-400 кг бомбовая нагрузка.) в кормовом авиаотсеке. М.б. с катапультой. М.б даже ГК до 406-мм поднять в АИ и СК уменьшить к 138-мм?

von Echenbach: АИ предположение по развитию французской артиллерии, кого заинтересует - покритикует :-)) По мотивам "утиверсальной тяжелой артиллерии в 138-152 мм, м.б. что-то (шпионы) из разработок англичанов и германцев. Примерные схемы стабилизации - от голландцев и итальянцев. М.б. и собственная система стабилизации, из Марселя. Основное предложение: замок-досылатель поршневого типа, при досылании за снарядом закладывается в лоток и заряд ( между направляющими арками-собственно досылателя снаряда, поскольку меньше по весу и объёму - технически решаемо, наверное.) и далее замок задвигается и поворотом запирает камору. Ожидаемая скорострельность - до 6-12 выстрелов в мин. Для тяжелых систем 12-16 дм аи - скорострельность до 3-6 в мин. Угол заряжания становится малоактуальным... - ???

von Echenbach: АИ супер-Фантаск 5х2 138, 1х3 ТА, 36 уз, борт, рубка, щиты - 12, палуба 12-24 (карапас-7). аи Фантаск, аи Франция аи лидер laid down 1929 Displacement: 3 233 t light; 3 377 t standard; 3 532 t normal; 3 656 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (449,71 ft / 433,07 ft) x 39,37 ft x (16,40 / 16,79 ft) (137,07 m / 132,00 m) x 12,00 m x (5,00 / 5,12 m) Armament: 10 - 5,43" / 138 mm 45,0 cal guns - 80,87lbs / 36,68kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model 3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 1 raised mount aft 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 821 lbs / 372 kg Main Torpedoes 3 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,512 t each, 4,537 t total In 1 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 99,21 lbs / 45,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,443 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 0,47" / 12 mm 295,28 ft / 90,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 105% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,47" / 12 mm 0,47" / 12 mm 2nd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 0,94" / 24 mm Forecastle: 0,47" / 12 mm Quarter deck: 0,47" / 12 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,47" / 12 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 67 721 shp / 50 520 Kw = 36,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 279 tons Complement: 228 - 297 Cost: £1,674 million / $6,697 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 153 tons, 4,3% - Guns: 143 tons, 4,1% - Weapons: 10 tons, 0,3% Armour: 262 tons, 7,4% - Belts: 55 tons, 1,6% - Armament: 22 tons, 0,6% - Armour Deck: 182 tons, 5,1% - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 1 901 tons, 53,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 917 tons, 26,0% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 299 tons, 8,5% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 958 lbs / 434 Kg = 11,9 x 5,4 " / 138 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,37 Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 11,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,36 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck , a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,442 / 0,447 Length to Beam Ratio: 11,00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 23,74 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 19,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,26 ft / 5,26 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 185,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,6% Waterplane Area: 11 223 Square feet or 1 043 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 74% Structure weight / hull surface area: 45 lbs/sq ft or 220 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,57 - Longitudinal: 1,93 - Overall: 0,65 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room

GromoBoy: Это уже какой-то лёгкий крейсер получается.

von Echenbach: Экономный 600 (700) т МН: laid down 1926 Displacement: 607 t light; 633 t standard; 667 t normal; 695 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (246,46 ft / 236,22 ft) x 21,65 ft x (9,84 / 10,12 ft) (75,12 m / 72,00 m) x 6,60 m x (3,00 / 3,09 m) Armament: 4 - 3,94" / 100 mm 42,0 cal guns - 29,59lbs / 13,42kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 950 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring Weight of broadside 125 lbs / 57 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 18,1" / 460 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,010 t each, 6,059 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 99,21 lbs / 45,00 kg Depth Charges + 14 reloads - 0,709 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - 3rd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,35" / 9 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 9 877 shp / 7 369 Kw = 27,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 62 tons Complement: 65 - 85 Cost: £0,241 million / $0,966 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 33 tons, 4,9% - Guns: 20 tons, 2,9% - Weapons: 13 tons, 1,9% Armour: 5 tons, 0,7% - Armament: 4 tons, 0,6% - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 306 tons, 45,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 263 tons, 39,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 61 tons, 9,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 351 lbs / 159 Kg = 3,2 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16 Metacentric height 0,7 ft / 0,2 m Roll period: 11,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,464 / 0,470 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,91 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 17,50 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 22,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 48,00%, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Average freeboard: 10,45 ft / 3,19 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 157,8% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 72,7% Waterplane Area: 3 430 Square feet or 319 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96% Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 178 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,86 - Longitudinal: 3,92 - Overall: 1,00 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room



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