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альтернативный Тирпиц
von Echenbach: Попаданец в Тирпица. Версии по времени 1880-1890-1900. Новая стратегия, геополитика и проекты кораблей. (и его помощник Штирлиц) :-) https://naval-manual.livejournal.com/16899.html#comments -идея навеяна текстом ув. Реалсвата
Ответов - 54, стр:
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von Echenbach: альт-Ютланд (аи-Скагеррак), и которого может не произойти, с альтернативными дредноутами, пока немецкими. Нассау - схема Фусо с 6х2 11", Остфрисланд по схеме Хиуга, с 12".
von Echenbach: Гидроавиакрейсер к 1 МВ: катамаранный корпус, в носу две катапульты (или одна в носу и одна-две на крыше ангара. Ангар на верхней палубе на 7-9 самолетов ( тип - ? ИБ и Б-торпедоносец, Варианты гидро, всего - 17-33) Проект в проработке). Ниже верхней палубы - базовая грузовая - на 7-9 аппаратов с 2 лифтами, бронирование - 30 мм, И ещё ниже - подвесные аппараты между поплавковыми корпусами катамарана - на 7 самолетов-гидро. Скосы арочной конструкции моста корпуса 30-60 мм, 12 105, 6 -88 зен. 8000т, 26 уз, Каприви аи авиаКР, аи Германия аи Авиатр-КР катамаран laid down 1910 Displacement: 7 626 t light; 7 849 t standard; 8 678 t normal; 9 342 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (408,17 ft / 393,70 ft) x 72,18 ft x (19,69 / 20,82 ft) (124,41 m / 120,00 m) x 22,00 m x (6,00 / 6,35 m) Armament: 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1910 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 150 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1910 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 595 lbs / 270 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Main Belt covers 77% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm - - 3rd: 0,35" / 9 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 1,18" / 30 mm Forecastle: 0,59" / 15 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 36 045 shp / 26 889 Kw = 26,00 kts Range 2 800nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 493 tons Complement: 449 - 584 Cost: £0,504 million / $2,017 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 99 tons, 1,1% - Guns: 99 tons, 1,1% Armour: 783 tons, 9,0% - Belts: 305 tons, 3,5% - Armament: 24 tons, 0,3% - Armour Deck: 432 tons, 5,0% - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0,2% Machinery: 1 489 tons, 17,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 045 tons, 58,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 052 tons, 12,1% Miscellaneous weights: 210 tons, 2,4% - Hull below water: 140 tons - Hull above water: 40 tons - On freeboard deck: 20 tons - Above deck: 10 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 21 332 lbs / 9 676 Kg = 197,5 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 3,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,45 Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m Roll period: 12,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,03 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04 Hull form characteristics: Hull has low quarterdeck , a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,543 / 0,553 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,45 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 23,76 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,98 ft / 6,70 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 199,8% Waterplane Area: 20 509 Square feet or 1 905 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 204% Structure weight / hull surface area: 172 lbs/sq ft or 841 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,74 - Longitudinal: 5,46 - Overall: 1,95 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Dampir: не нать нам катамаран. Как его в док ставить
von Echenbach: Dampir пишет: Как его в док ставить :-) В тот-же, где строили, м.б. по типу "сухого". На следующей паре (Штош) предусмотрено базирование двух дирижаблей - "средних" флотских разведчиков, обеспечение 4-х ПЛ и подвесная арка превращена в нижний ангар с добавлением нижнего закрытого пространства - палубы или платформы. Высадка в Англии? Десантные силы?
von Echenbach: альт Газелле, альт Германия, альт ЛгКР laid down 1901 Displacement: 2 465 t light; 2 585 t standard; 3 000 t normal; 3 332 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (374,23 ft / 364,17 ft) x 39,37 ft x (13,12 / 14,25 ft) (114,07 m / 111,00 m) x 12,00 m x (4,00 / 4,34 m) Armament: 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,36kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model 2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 1 raised mount 8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 19,93lbs / 9,04kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas Weight of broadside 430 lbs / 195 kg Main Torpedoes 8 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 0,712 t each, 5,698 t total In 4 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 252,62 ft / 77,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 107% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm - 3rd: 0,59" / 15 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,38" / 35 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9 243 ihp / 6 895 Kw = 21,00 kts Range 3 300nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 747 tons (100% coal) Complement: 202 - 263 Cost: £0,295 million / $1,178 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 73 tons, 2,4% - Guns: 62 tons, 2,1% - Weapons: 11 tons, 0,4% Armour: 364 tons, 12,1% - Belts: 81 tons, 2,7% - Armament: 23 tons, 0,8% - Armour Deck: 250 tons, 8,3% - Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 1 355 tons, 45,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 673 tons, 22,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 535 tons, 17,8% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 1 454 lbs / 659 Kg = 13,5 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,67 Metacentric height 2,9 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 9,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 98 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,18 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,96 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,558 / 0,571 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,25 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 20,47 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 38,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 29,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 14,00 ft / 4,27 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 153,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127,7% Waterplane Area: 10 331 Square feet or 960 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89% Structure weight / hull surface area: 43 lbs/sq ft or 209 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,72 - Longitudinal: 1,20 - Overall: 0,76 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Dampir: von Echenbach пишет: :-) В тот-же, где строили, м.б. по типу "сухого". Строили не на стапеле в эллинге? Бюджет чай не резиновый
von Echenbach: Dampir пишет: не на стапеле в эллинге? Бюджет чай не резиновый сухой док для крупносерийного строительства - в т.ч. торгового, под субсидии, по 4-6-8 пароходов.
von Echenbach: Ответ англов на проект ЛгКР Газелле -? Возможно, подобно позднейшему проекту эскортного эм т. Хант с 3х2 120-мм. Провоцирование гонки вооружений на море и поддержание "соревнования калибров"?
von Echenbach: альт бркр Принц Адальберт, альт Германия, альт бркр-бр laid down 1896 - 3 ед. схема Бранденбурга. Displacement: 5 525 t light; 5 858 t standard; 6 849 t normal; 7 642 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (401,61 ft / 387,14 ft) x 55,77 ft x (19,69 / 21,46 ft) (122,41 m / 118,00 m) x 17,00 m x (6,00 / 6,54 m) Armament: 6 - 8,27" / 210 mm 40,0 cal guns - 270,82lbs / 122,84kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,36kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 063 lbs / 936 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 0,599 t each, 1,199 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 98,43 ft / 30,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 26,25 ft / 8,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 1,18" / 30 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 104% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 3,54" / 90 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 3rd: 1,18" / 30 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15 443 ihp / 11 521 Kw = 21,00 kts Range 4 400nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 784 tons (100% coal) Complement: 376 - 489 Cost: £0,709 million / $2,836 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 480 tons, 7,0% - Guns: 478 tons, 7,0% - Weapons: 2 tons, 0,0% Armour: 1 597 tons, 23,3% - Belts: 407 tons, 5,9% - Armament: 233 tons, 3,4% - Armour Deck: 920 tons, 13,4% - Conning Towers: 37 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 2 574 tons, 37,6% Hull, fittings & equipment: 874 tons, 12,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 324 tons, 19,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2 058 lbs / 933 Kg = 19,1 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,50 Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m Roll period: 11,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,48 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,62 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,564 / 0,577 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,94 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,39 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 26,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 42,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,48 ft / 5,02 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 143,5% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121,4% Waterplane Area: 15 648 Square feet or 1 454 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 83% Structure weight / hull surface area: 49 lbs/sq ft or 238 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,46 - Longitudinal: 1,04 - Overall: 0,50 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather альт бр Веттин, альт Германия, альт быстроходный бр laid down 1896 - 6 ед. Displacement: 10 362 t light; 10 884 t standard; 12 004 t normal; 12 900 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (412,58 ft / 396,98 ft) x 75,46 ft x (24,61 / 26,04 ft) (125,75 m / 121,00 m) x 23,00 m x (7,50 / 7,94 m) Armament: 6 - 9,45" / 240 mm 40,0 cal guns - 404,25lbs / 183,37kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,36kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 3 000 lbs / 1 361 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 0,599 t each, 1,199 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 9,45" / 240 mm 236,22 ft / 72,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 29,53 ft / 9,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 1,18" / 30 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 92% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 94,5" / 2 400 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 3rd: 2,36" / 60 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 9,45" / 240 mm, Aft 2,36" / 60 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15 726 ihp / 11 732 Kw = 19,00 kts Range 3 400nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 2 016 tons (100% coal) Complement: 573 - 745 Cost: £0,957 million / $3,828 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 697 tons, 5,8% - Guns: 695 tons, 5,8% - Weapons: 2 tons, 0,0% Armour: 3 691 tons, 30,7% - Belts: 1 236 tons, 10,3% - Armament: 1 037 tons, 8,6% - Armour Deck: 1 284 tons, 10,7% - Conning Towers: 133 tons, 1,1% Machinery: 2 621 tons, 21,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 353 tons, 27,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 642 tons, 13,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 14 523 lbs / 6 588 Kg = 134,5 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 4,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,39 Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m Roll period: 13,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,64 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,570 / 0,579 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,26 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,98 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 32,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 36,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,11 ft / 5,21 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115,9% Waterplane Area: 21 833 Square feet or 2 028 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108% Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 598 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,92 - Longitudinal: 2,36 - Overall: 1,01 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather альт бр Брауншвейг, альт Германия, альт бр laid down 1898 6 ед. Displacement: 10 264 t light; 10 921 t standard; 12 004 t normal; 12 871 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (408,85 ft / 396,98 ft) x 75,46 ft x (24,61 / 26,00 ft) (124,62 m / 121,00 m) x 23,00 m x (7,50 / 7,92 m) Armament: 6 - 11,02" / 280 mm 42,0 cal guns - 649,51lbs / 294,61kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1898 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 33,85lbs / 15,36kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1898 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 12 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 4 555 lbs / 2 066 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 0,599 t each, 1,199 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 259,19 ft / 79,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 100% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 9,45" / 240 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 10,2" / 260 mm 3rd: 2,36" / 60 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 9,45" / 240 mm, Aft 2,36" / 60 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15 726 ihp / 11 732 Kw = 19,00 kts Range 3 400nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 951 tons (100% coal) Complement: 573 - 745 Cost: £1,084 million / $4,335 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 927 tons, 7,7% - Guns: 924 tons, 7,7% - Weapons: 2 tons, 0,0% Armour: 3 567 tons, 29,7% - Belts: 1 290 tons, 10,7% - Armament: 859 tons, 7,2% - Armour Deck: 1 284 tons, 10,7% - Conning Towers: 133 tons, 1,1% Machinery: 2 536 tons, 21,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 235 tons, 26,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 740 tons, 14,5% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 12 535 lbs / 5 686 Kg = 18,7 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 3,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,39 Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m Roll period: 13,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 83 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,42 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,67 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,570 / 0,578 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,26 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,98 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 32,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 36,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,23 ft / 5,25 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117,3% Waterplane Area: 21 833 Square feet or 2 028 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99% Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 588 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,84 - Longitudinal: 2,41 - Overall: 0,94 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: по Газелле - перевооружение второй серии на 4х1 (вместо 4х2 105, хотя...?) 150-45 8-88-45. 6х2 та. и повышение скорости до 23 уз. - 6 ед.
von Echenbach: БрКР типа Роон: 23 уз, 6 (3х2) 280-мм, борт, башни скосы палубы - до 120 мм. -3 ед. Большой крейсер типа Магдебург (усиленный Кельн = почти КрКрКз, :-) ) 4х1 210. Авизо ( до 23-26 уз) КЛ (до 17 уз) - 1200 т, 3 105-мм, ЭМ - 600 т, 3-5 -88, 6 ТТ, 26 уз, МН - 300 т, 1-2 -88-мм, 3-1 - 50-мм,6 ТТ, 23-26 ух, МнБО - 150 т, 3 - 50-мм, 3-5 ТТ, 21-23 уз. Все корабли в развитие проекта имеют "модернизационный запас", т.е. возможность установк (в т.ч. и в новом корпусе) турбмн и нефтяных котлов. аи Блюхер - 25 уз, а) 3-4х2 280=, исходя из проекта а-Кельн, б) 3х2 360. Неизбежность конфликта с Англией ведёт к сценариям: опережающего или отодвинутого по началу времени, относительно реала, моменту. Некоторое полученное "предвидением-послезнанием" преимущество в технологиях или тактике ... На момент развития конфликта САСШ с испанией или Японии с Россией альтГермания может поучаствовать в умиротворении. Методом "примыкания в новому союзу или "предоставления"вооружения в аренду.
von Echenbach: Немецкая Касабланка - ? Обмен Марокко на Лотарингию. др. колонии -?
von Echenbach: Высадка в Англии - как это Сделать для Тирпица и Вилли?
von Echenbach: Продолжаем "персиковое" фантазирование. :-) Новая теория - флот одной операции. Блицкриг против Голландии (или союз) и Англии. В вариациях: исходные пункты десантной операции: Роттердам и близлежащие порты - 2-3-4 эшелон; Эмден - 2-3 эшелон; Вильгельмсгафен - первый высадочный эшелон десанта с ударно-диверсионными группами-бригадами против портов Ярмут-Лоустофт-Харвич. Район собственно высадки - на подходящем участке побережья в указанной зоне. М.б. Данвич. Организация высадочного порта с развитием операции на Норвич, Тетфорд и ипсвич на первом этапе армейской фронтовой операции на острове. 1 эшелон - 1 корпус, 2 - 1 корпуса, 3-4 - техника и снаряжение. Далее - регулярное снабжение и усиление десантной армии. Политический фактор создания флота: береговая оборона - ББО различных типов. ББО6 тяжелые, с 16-дм арт, прикрытия - с 240-305 мм ГК, лёгкие - как броненосные КЛ. Очень немного классических разновидностей ЭБР КР. Мн -? + транспортно-десантные корабли. Вопросы: как сие собрать-довести? Высадить и снабжать...? Ваши предложения, в т.ч. и за англичан. М.б. кто поделится ссылками на береговую оборону Англии 1900-1914 (схемы и описания)
von Echenbach: "Прогрессивные" образцы герм. альтернативной техники: аналог танкеток Карден-Ллойд, часть в качестве БТР; САУ по типу танков Сен-Шамон; бронеавтомобили, в т.ч. пушечные. Грузовые автомобили и тягач ТА (150-210 мм), пехотные мортиры-миномёты 80 и 120 мм. Десантные катера, баржи и прамы, корабли-причалы. Бетонные плавучие причалы и боксы по типу плав.доков для возможного затопления в зоне высадки с заведением в них броненосцев - импровизированные береговые батареи с дополнительной защитой от тяжелой артиллерии и торпед. Тральщики. Погода, желательно хорошая. :-)
von Echenbach: Попытаюсь расшевелить сообщество уважаемых коллег от осенне-зимнего оцепенения, заметьте - не от зимнего сна :-), предложением рассмотреть иное направление комплектации ГзФ и выбором "модифицированной" стратегии. Аксиоматично - Англии выгодно начинать военные действия в 1914 году, до реализации новых немецких судостроительных программ. Учитывая проработки австрийцев по созданию 350-мм (345?) орудия, предполагаем появление "интереса" германцев и постройка на год ранее (интенсивнее, в 3-4 смены), дредноутов типа "Кениг" и "Байерн" с 360 (380-406)-мм орудиями, 4х2. Официально - ттх ри дредноута т. Кениг. Разведывательная группа: Гебен, Мольтке, Зейдлиц, 3 т. Дерфлингер и группа прикрытия из 3 ЛК т. Кениг. К легким крейсерам-скаутам т. Магдебург можно добавить 3-4 аи-крейсера т. Кельн (28 уз, 6000 т, борт, палуба - 40, 4х1 или 4х2 190-170). Блюхер разогнать до 26 уз и вместе с и Фон дер Танн определить в Средиземноморскую дивизию. Ещё вариант с аи-брКР: по идее австр. Санкт-Георга - 9000 т, 24-26 уз, 2х2 280, 10 - 150. Роон, Йорк, Шарнхорст, Гейзенау, Ретро-перестройка из Пр. Генрих и Пр. Адальберт. Прообраз карманного ЛК. Пока не трогая программы строительства ПЛ (в РИ увлекшись ДР, опоздали) и МН.
von Echenbach: Альт-Маккензен. Не столько "альт", сколько попытка воспроизвести существовавший проект линейного крейсера с небольшими техническими изменениями. laid down 1912 Displacement: 24 215 t light; 25 307 t standard; 26 330 t normal; 27 148 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (633,46 ft / 620,08 ft) x 75,46 ft x (29,53 / 30,32 ft) (193,08 m / 189,00 m) x 23,00 m x (9,00 / 9,24 m) Armament: 6 - 14,96" / 380 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1 688,52lbs / 765,90kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 1 raised mount aft 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1912 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas Weight of broadside 10 559 lbs / 4 789 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 288,71 ft / 88,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 3,54" / 90 mm 295,28 ft / 90,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 36,09 ft / 11,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 2,36" / 60 mm 288,71 ft / 88,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 72% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 6,30" / 160 mm 11,0" / 280 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm - Conning towers: Forward 8,66" / 220 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 63 122 shp / 47 089 Kw = 26,00 kts Range 2 400nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 840 tons (60% coal) Complement: 1 033 - 1 343 Cost: £2,185 million / $8,741 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 2 133 tons, 8,1% - Guns: 2 133 tons, 8,1% Armour: 5 630 tons, 21,4% - Belts: 2 242 tons, 8,5% - Armament: 1 680 tons, 6,4% - Armour Deck: 1 543 tons, 5,9% - Conning Tower: 165 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 2 662 tons, 10,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 13 790 tons, 52,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 115 tons, 8,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 36 393 lbs / 16 508 Kg = 21,7 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 3,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,00 Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 17,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,21 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,10 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,667 / 0,670 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,22 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,37 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 38,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 27,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,98 ft / 6,40 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141,8% Waterplane Area: 37 994 Square feet or 3 530 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131% Structure weight / hull surface area: 262 lbs/sq ft or 1 279 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,55 - Longitudinal: 2,66 - Overall: 1,64 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Альт-Байерн. По типу Исе-Фусо, но с иным положением башен ГК: линейно, 4 в корме с 2 средними возвышенно и 2 на палубе полубака, первая - в носу, а вторая - за трубой или б) за первой башней или за рубкой-мостиком. laid down 1912 Displacement: 33 924 t light; 35 747 t standard; 37 303 t normal; 38 548 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (731,95 ft / 711,94 ft) x 88,58 ft x (32,81 / 33,69 ft) (223,10 m / 217,00 m) x 27,00 m x (10,00 / 10,27 m) Armament: 12 - 14,96" / 380 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1 688,52lbs / 765,90kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 2 raised mounts 18 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1912 Model 18 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 18 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 150 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread Weight of broadside 21 029 lbs / 9 539 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 344,49 ft / 105,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 3,54" / 90 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 39,37 ft / 12,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 74% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 5,51" / 140 mm 11,0" / 280 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 9,45" / 240 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 49 281 shp / 36 763 Kw = 23,00 kts Range 2 600nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 2 801 tons (100% coal) Complement: 1 341 - 1 744 Cost: £3,416 million / $13,664 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 4 251 tons, 11,4% - Guns: 4 251 tons, 11,4% Armour: 9 646 tons, 25,9% - Belts: 3 142 tons, 8,4% - Armament: 3 253 tons, 8,7% - Armour Deck: 3 024 tons, 8,1% - Conning Tower: 227 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 2 161 tons, 5,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 17 865 tons, 47,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 379 tons, 9,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 48 413 lbs / 21 960 Kg = 28,9 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 4,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,00 Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,3 m Roll period: 18,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,32 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,26 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,631 / 0,635 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,04 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 30,55 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 27,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,08 ft / 6,12 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65,5% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134,0% Waterplane Area: 49 510 Square feet or 4 600 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115% Structure weight / hull surface area: 282 lbs/sq ft or 1 376 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,42 - Longitudinal: 2,04 - Overall: 1,47 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
von Echenbach: Альт. Байерн. По схеме Исе. 1. 6х2 350 (355)-мм, 2. 6х2 380-мм, 3. 6х3 305 (официальная начальная версия строительного проекта в 1911 г. Трехорудийные башни - влияние АВ, Италии и России. Якобы). Второй вариант - без носовой возвышенной башни. Третий вариант - носовая возвышенная башня переставлена ф) за трубы, б) перед трубами или в) в корму.
von Echenbach: Возможный проект развития Маккензена (реальный проект на 1918 с 380-420-мм орудиями ГК). аи версия 3х2 380 (3х3 305)-мм, 26 уз. 1912.
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