аи операции кригсмарине ри и аи

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аи операции кригсмарине ри и аи

von Echenbach: Какими могли быть альтернативные океанские операции рейсмарине? 1. более сбалансированная комплектация Нарвикского отряда (с бх танкером или ЛгКР) с Норвежской операции 1940 г. 2. "Граф Шпее" не спешит... и не дымит, не контактирует с английским крейсерским отрядом. 3. Более ранний вояж Шарнхорста и Генйзенау с последующим включением, м.б. во втором походе (выход из Альтен-Фьорда) в отряд Бисмарка и Лютцова. 4. Набег на Карибы. 5. ...

Ответов - 25, стр: 1 2 All

Mukhin: ИМХО - прорыв в Средиземье с дальним прицелом на Мальту

von Echenbach: Mukhin пишет: с дальним прицелом на Мальту При правильном планировании взять Мальту можно 1-2 дивизиями под зонтиком авиации. Беня и Адик просто проворонили на крыльях славы и больших планов. А потом - нечем стало. И это хорошо. А ФОМ-2 в средиземке делать особо нечего. В океане порезвиться - имеет смысл. Правда возникает проблема с обеспечением и охранением обеспечения (ПЛ или КР к судам снабжения). Но против авианосцев в океане реально противопоставить нечего, даже против эскортных. М.б. ряд лайнеров быстро переделать (вот тема ещё).

von Echenbach: Возможно, немцам стоило бы озаботиться быстроходными кораблями снабжения с некоторой артиллерией для перехвата подвернувшихся торговых судов. Примерно 6-9 000т, 22-26 уз, 2-4 150-мм, или 4-8 105 + 2 ТА. 2-5 000 грузов (нефтепродукты преимущественно, + 3-6 гидро (резко возрастает район обнаружения). Прикрывают Карманные линкоры и ПЛ. Т.е. вытекает идея "эскадренных засадных" подлодок (угроза большим кораблям-антирейдерам: ЛК, ЛнКР, АВ и ТКР) и транспорта-носителя их. А ударная группа подавляет Крейсера и непосредственное охранение (ПЛО) конвоев и наводит "стаи". Можно пользоваться сменными радиогруппами на основе подлодочных (подводочных :-) ) радиостанций. 2-3 взимно-поддерживающих группы и 2-3 сменных могут поставить английские пути снабжения в очень трудное положение.

von Echenbach: Пересматривал книги и темы-сайты о метаниях и мучениях Шарнхорста. Возник вопрос: если по Шарнхорсту стреляли (Дюк) с применением радара, и германцы - в целом давно уже знали эту технологию и систему помех (фольга с самолетов), то почему - не сделали снаряды-радиоэлектронных помех?

von Echenbach: Снаряд-РЭБ (с фольгой) близок к осветительному. Снаряд дымовой - на суше были (специальный-газовый изначально) - для быстрой постановке дымзавес в оптимальном положении. Постановка радиопомех - насколько имеет смысл?

von Echenbach: "модернизации" проекта "Шарнхорст": 1. учитывая быстрое развитие авиации - а) 150-мм - 12 в одноорудийных установках (идеал - стабилизированные автоматы со скорострельностью 20 в/мин и индивидуальным управлением-наведением.) Можно 150-мм заменить на 128-мм. + 8-12х2 105 универсальные. б) 12-16х2 105 - в плохую видимость или ночью способны выдать относительно плотную преграду для неприятельских ЭМ и нарушить системв управления-наблюдения КР. 2. ГК - - 3х2 380. Реал. планы. 3. дополнительное бронирование до верхней палубы ои А до С башен в 120-90 мм. - ?

von Echenbach: Кстати, но "рождественскому бою" 26 декабря 1943 (Гибель "Шарнхорста").: мог получить 14" снаряд с "Дюк оф Йорк" в момент поворота при "зигзагировании" НА англичан (изменение кускового угла на англичан с примерно 45 град до 80-90 гра и совпадении крена при повороте и волны. Тогда версия Дулина-Гарцке /в т.ч. в мзложении Сулиги/ имеет некоторый смысл. К сожалению, это предположения, т.к. по Якобсену, даже место гибели Ш. англы указали в открытой печати с искажениями. По сути - потопили фашистов - молодцы англы.

von Echenbach: И, вообще, действия Бея - весьма прямолинейные и излишне упрощённые. Легко просчитываемые. как и всех проигравших, с т.зр. имеющих послезнание. И всё равно: ура англам, потопившим фашистского зверя!.

von Echenbach: Аи-вариант "усиленного" шнельбота или раумбота: 100-140 т, 26-36 уз, 2ТА, или 8-12 МЗ, 3х1 37-40-мм, 2-4 20-мм, в корме 2 88-76-мм (м.б. 3, с одной в носу?)

von Echenbach: альтфлот аи Германии: Большие корабли: Броненосцы (учебные, береговой обороны) - переделаны под дизели, 3х2 11", 4х2 или 12х1 105 ромбом (схема - старые "Бранденбурги") - 3+1 ( а) 2х3 11" или б) 3х3 11"). У всех - були. Возможно, у одного из этих ББО - электро-дизельная СУ и у одного - турбо-электрическая. Броненосцы (карманные линкоры) - классика, 3, Броненосцы (супер-Карманные ЛК) - 6 (2х3) 381-мм, 12 (6х2) 105-мм, 3. супер Шпее, аи Г аи КЛК laid down 1931 Displacement: 13 767 t light; 15 098 t standard; 17 422 t normal; 19 282 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (604,40 ft / 583,99 ft) x 85,30 ft x (22,97 / 24,79 ft) (184,22 m / 178,00 m) x 26,00 m x (7,00 / 7,56 m) Armament: 6 - 15,00" / 381 mm 50,0 cal guns - 1 786,45lbs / 810,32kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1931 Model 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1931 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 11 159 lbs / 5 061 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,327 t each, 7,959 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 416,67 ft / 127,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m Ends: 0,79" / 20 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 110% of normal length Main Belt inclined 9,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 6,30" / 160 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,47" / 12 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 2,76" / 70 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion generators, Electric motors, 4 shafts, 83 321 shp / 62 157 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 8 000nm at 18,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 4 184 tons Complement: 757 - 985 Cost: £8,563 million / $34,253 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 2 512 tons, 14,4% - Guns: 2 501 tons, 14,4% - Weapons: 11 tons, 0,1% Armour: 4 894 tons, 28,1% - Belts: 1 900 tons, 10,9% - Armament: 785 tons, 4,5% - Armour Deck: 2 210 tons, 12,7% Machinery: 2 492 tons, 14,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 809 tons, 21,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 655 tons, 21,0% Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 0,3% - Hull below water: 30 tons - Hull above water: 15 tons - On freeboard deck: 10 tons - Above deck: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 10 637 lbs / 4 825 Kg = 6,3 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,32 Metacentric height 6,5 ft / 2,0 m Roll period: 14,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,64 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,533 / 0,546 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,85 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,36 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,64 ft / 6,60 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175,4% Waterplane Area: 35 610 Square feet or 3 308 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 84% Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 492 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,52 - Longitudinal: 1,16 - Overall: 0,56 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Легкие линейные корабли - линкоры прибрежного назначения, противодействие крейсерским соединениям) 12 (4х3) - 381-мм, 16 (8х2) - 105-мм. 3. АИ Шарнхорст 15дм 12, аи Г ЛК-ЛнКР laid down 1936 Displacement: 33 469 t light; 35 909 t standard; 37 219 t normal; 38 266 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (754,56 ft / 728,35 ft) x 111,55 ft x (29,53 / 30,16 ft) (229,99 m / 222,00 m) x 34,00 m x (9,00 / 9,19 m) Armament: 12 - 15,39" / 391 mm 50,0 cal guns - 1 930,84lbs / 875,82kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 16 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 450 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 23 759 lbs / 10 777 kg Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 459,32 ft / 140,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m 39,37 ft / 12,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 97% of normal length Main Belt inclined 15,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 9,45" / 240 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 7,87" / 200 mm 2nd: 1,42" / 36 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 0,94" / 24 mm 3rd: 0,35" / 9 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 4,72" / 120 mm Forecastle: 2,56" / 65 mm Quarter deck: 3,74" / 95 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 1,57" / 40 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 133 628 shp / 99 686 Kw = 30,00 kts Range 3 200nm at 17,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 2 357 tons Complement: 1 339 - 1 741 Cost: £21,750 million / $86,998 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 5 266 tons, 14,1% - Guns: 5 265 tons, 14,1% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 11 710 tons, 31,5% - Belts: 3 852 tons, 10,3% - Armament: 2 856 tons, 7,7% - Armour Deck: 4 794 tons, 12,9% - Conning Towers: 208 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 3 749 tons, 10,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 12 689 tons, 34,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 750 tons, 10,1% Miscellaneous weights: 55 tons, 0,1% - Hull below water: 25 tons - Hull above water: 15 tons - On freeboard deck: 10 tons - Above deck: 5 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 34 924 lbs / 15 841 Kg = 19,1 x 15,4 " / 391 mm shells or 3,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13 Metacentric height 7,4 ft / 2,3 m Roll period: 17,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,80 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,06 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a straight bulbous bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,543 / 0,547 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,53 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 29,47 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 42,65 ft / 13,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 37,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Average freeboard: 25,54 ft / 7,79 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 188,5% Waterplane Area: 57 714 Square feet or 5 362 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88% Structure weight / hull surface area: 192 lbs/sq ft or 938 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,76 - Longitudinal: 1,39 - Overall: 0,81 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Тяжелый линейный корабль - 12 (4х3) 381-мм СК-УК 105 или 128-мм, борт - 360, палуба - до 150. 3. аи Бисмарк, аи Г ЛК аи laid down 1936 Displacement: 31 346 t light; 33 847 t standard; 36 016 t normal; 37 752 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (770,97 ft / 744,75 ft) x 118,11 ft x (26,25 / 27,22 ft) (234,99 m / 227,00 m) x 36,00 m x (8,00 / 8,30 m) Armament: 12 - 15,00" / 381 mm 50,0 cal guns - 1 786,45lbs / 810,32kg shells, 140 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 16 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread 4 raised mounts 12 - 1,06" / 27,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,61lbs / 0,27kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 22 015 lbs / 9 986 kg Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 14,2" / 360 mm 426,51 ft / 130,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m 55,77 ft / 17,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 88% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 11,8" / 300 mm 2nd: 2,36" / 60 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 5,51" / 140 mm Forecastle: 2,36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 3,54" / 90 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 2,36" / 60 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 115 651 shp / 86 275 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 5 000nm at 18,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3 905 tons Complement: 1 306 - 1 699 Cost: £20,182 million / $80,729 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 5 014 tons, 13,9% - Guns: 5 013 tons, 13,9% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 14 827 tons, 41,2% - Belts: 4 841 tons, 13,4% - Armament: 3 786 tons, 10,5% - Armour Deck: 5 978 tons, 16,6% - Conning Towers: 222 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 3 245 tons, 9,0% Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 260 tons, 22,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 670 tons, 13,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 26 112 lbs / 11 844 Kg = 15,5 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 3,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20 Metacentric height 8,9 ft / 2,7 m Roll period: 16,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,61 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,11 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a straight bulbous bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,546 / 0,552 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,31 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 29,85 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 42,65 ft / 13,00 m, 32,81 ft / 10,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Average freeboard: 25,66 ft / 7,82 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 209,9% Waterplane Area: 62 663 Square feet or 5 822 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 84% Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 634 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,52 - Longitudinal: 0,82 - Overall: 0,54 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Тяжелые легкие крейсера - почти "Хиппер", в процессе проектирования, 3-6 Легкие крейсера - улучшенный "Кенигсберг"/"Кельн" - ? Крейсера-разведчики - ?

von Echenbach: Крейсера типа "К"... показали относительную слабость конструкции и, в некоторой степени, неудачливость. Хотя в целом по ТТЭ выглядат вполне прилично. Как можно было бы улучшить проект? Вероятно: отказ от дизелей эконом. хода, или наоборот, усиление дизельной СУ. М.б. отказ от трехвальной системы. И, на мой взгляд - более значимое возможное "улучшение": в конструкции корпуса добавить дополнительные две бортовые переборки от носовой до кормовой башен ГК. Возможно и усиление палубного и внутреннего бронирования.

von Echenbach: Проект суперКЛ №11 (Возможно, пойдет и как собственно КЛ): аи Шеер, аи Гкрмания аи КЛ laid down 1930 Barbette ship Displacement: 8 542 t light; 9 326 t standard; 11 308 t normal; 12 893 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (497,60 ft / 482,28 ft) x 62,34 ft x (24,61 / 27,29 ft) (151,67 m / 147,00 m) x 19,00 m x (7,50 / 8,32 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 675,51lbs / 306,40kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1930 Model 2 x Triple mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft 1 x Triple mount on centreline, forward deck forward 8 - 5,91" / 150 mm 45,0 cal guns - 103,86lbs / 47,11kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1930 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 450 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread 2 raised mounts - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 7 195 lbs / 3 264 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 298,56 ft / 91,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m 19,69 ft / 6,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 95% of normal length Main Belt inclined 9,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 6,30" / 160 mm 2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm - - 3rd: 0,87" / 22 mm 0,43" / 11 mm - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 2,56" / 65 mm Quarter deck: 2,76" / 70 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,57" / 40 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric motors, 3 shafts, 64 047 shp / 47 779 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 9 000nm at 18,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3 566 tons Complement: 547 - 712 Cost: £4,271 million / $17,082 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 268 tons, 11,2% - Guns: 1 268 tons, 11,2% Armour: 3 448 tons, 30,5% - Belts: 1 160 tons, 10,3% - Armament: 1 007 tons, 8,9% - Armour Deck: 1 212 tons, 10,7% - Conning Towers: 68 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 1 941 tons, 17,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 845 tons, 16,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 766 tons, 24,5% Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 0,4% - Hull below water: 20 tons - Hull above water: 10 tons - On freeboard deck: 10 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 7 843 lbs / 3 558 Kg = 11,7 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28 Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 13,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 46 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,535 / 0,550 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,74 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 23,79 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 36,00%, 24,61 ft / 7,50 m, 24,61 ft / 7,50 m - Aft deck: 31,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,84 ft / 6,66 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153,6% Waterplane Area: 21 194 Square feet or 1 969 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97% Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 354 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,49 - Longitudinal: 1,55 - Overall: 0,55 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Как всегда в моих проектах - требуется шлифовка :-)

von Echenbach: По РИ: комплектация отрядов - при выходе в море/океан исходили из присутствия наличия боеготовых. Но м.б. можно было бы составлять отряды с включением ЛгКР, например: Шарнхорс, ЛгКР, 2 ЭМ - постоянный состав и один-два отряда в составе 1 ТКР/КЛК, 1 ЛгКР и 4-6 ЭМ. - ? По АИ: вознможность постройки "противоминных" ( решетчато-сетчатая конструкция с тремя малыми корпусами-баржами фронтом с интервалом 20 м, всего ширина полосы 60 м, глубина - 6-8 м. Скорость - до 19-20 уз) и "противоторпедных" (тримаранный корпус с боковыми "плавниками до 8 м, длина 90-12 м, ширина 5+7+5 м, 3-100-мм, 2-4 37-40-мм, 21-23 уз) эскортных/защитных барж? Для вывода кораблей из баз в акватории в 50-100 милях от берега (пройти мелководье и районы вероятного действия ПЛ, м.б. и защита от торпедоносцев).

von Echenbach: аи судьба броненосцев. Была предпринята попытка создать сильный флот береговой обороны. Параллельно с планируемыми океанскими рейдерами (будущие карманные линкоры) с некоторым опережением были проработаны проекты модернизации броненосцев. Формально, они были выведены из боевого состава для "переделок" с установлением дизельной силовой установки и дополнительной башни ГК в носовой части, освободившейся от котлов и установка булей. - в первом варианте. Второй вариант, затронувший следующую пару кораблей был фактически перестроен с изменением толщины главного броневого пояса, установленного под углом 12 град и новыми образованиями носовой и кормовой оконечностей. ГК был представлен трехорудийными 280-мм орудийными установками в прикрытых барбетах (проработка проекта КЛК). Следующая пара была также перестроена, но уже с башнями ГК. СК - в казематах 6-8 150-мм, УК - 4х2 88 ромбом в районе рубки и трубы. аи модерн Шлиезен, аи Гериания аи БР БО laid down 1924 Displacement: 14 380 t light; 15 318 t standard; 15 481 t normal; 15 611 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (441,12 ft / 426,51 ft) x 72,18 ft (Bulges 98,43 ft) x (22,97 / 23,17 ft) (134,45 m / 130,00 m) x 22,00 m (Bulges 30,00 m) x (7,00 / 7,06 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 50,0 cal guns - 709,07lbs / 321,63kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model 2 x Triple mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 1 x Triple mount on centreline, aft deck aft 8 - 7,87" / 200 mm 45,0 cal guns - 246,18lbs / 111,66kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1924 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread 9 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model 2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 2 raised mounts 2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 8 531 lbs / 3 870 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 9,45" / 240 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 32,81 ft / 10,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 3,54" / 90 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 71% of normal length Main Belt inclined 12,00 degrees (positive = in) - Hull Bulges: 0,35" / 9 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 9,45" / 240 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 2nd: 3,54" / 90 mm - - 3rd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm - 4th: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 9,45" / 240 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 15 488 shp / 11 554 Kw = 18,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 10,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 293 tons Complement: 693 - 902 Cost: £4,137 million / $16,549 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 648 tons, 10,6% - Guns: 1 648 tons, 10,6% Armour: 4 181 tons, 27,0% - Belts: 1 630 tons, 10,5% - Bulges: 59 tons, 0,4% - Armament: 1 135 tons, 7,3% - Armour Deck: 1 231 tons, 7,9% - Conning Tower: 126 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 510 tons, 3,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 041 tons, 51,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 100 tons, 7,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 29 431 lbs / 13 350 Kg = 43,9 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 4,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,43 Metacentric height 5,7 ft / 1,7 m Roll period: 17,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,87 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,562 / 0,562 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,33 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 23,08 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 35,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 33,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,69 ft / 6,31 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,5% Waterplane Area: 22 267 Square feet or 2 069 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124% Structure weight / hull surface area: 245 lbs/sq ft or 1 198 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,38 - Longitudinal: 4,39 - Overall: 1,55 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

von Echenbach: Тяжелый шнельбот: 80-110 т, 36 уз, 2 - 37-мм в корме, 4-6х1 ТА, 3 20-мм, глБ 8 шт. Тяжелый раумбот: 80т, 24 уз, 2х2 40-37 мм в корме (или 2х1 76-88 мм), 12 МЗ, 24-36 ГлБ.

von Echenbach: Учебные крейсера. С задачами МЗ. ГК колебался от 3х3 и 3х2 ретирадно, до 4х2 ретирадно-линейно 6" (150-мм). Носовой погреб ГК был защищен только 90-мм палубой. Нос по ВЛ при модернизации защитили 30-мм броневой сталью, заменили 88-мм ЗА на 105-мм. Могли принимать 100 МЗ в перегруз. В документах проходили как Учебные МЗ с ГК в 8 127-мм и 12 88-мм. Бремен- аи, аи Германия аи ЛгКР-МЗ laid down 1926 DESIGN FAILURE: Overall load weight too much for hull Displacement: 5 479 t light; 5 751 t standard; 6 025 t normal; 6 245 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (519,86 ft / 505,25 ft) x 49,21 ft x (16,40 / 16,84 ft) (158,45 m / 154,00 m) x 15,00 m x (5,00 / 5,13 m) Armament: 8 - 5,91" / 150 mm 50,0 cal guns - 109,02lbs / 49,45kg shells, 200 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 6 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 950 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 133 lbs / 514 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,8" / 553 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,395 t each, 8,372 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 360,89 ft / 110,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 110% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces Main Belt inclined 15,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 2,52" / 64 mm 0,87" / 22 mm 2,52" / 64 mm 2nd: 0,87" / 22 mm 0,47" / 12 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 3rd: 0,35" / 9 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 2,36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 60 338 shp / 45 012 Kw = 32,40 kts Range 1 600nm at 18,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 494 tons Complement: 341 - 444 Cost: £1,958 million / $7,832 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 338 tons, 5,6% - Guns: 321 tons, 5,3% - Weapons: 17 tons, 0,3% Armour: 2 220 tons, 36,8% - Belts: 906 tons, 15,0% - Armament: 175 tons, 2,9% - Armour Deck: 1 097 tons, 18,2% - Conning Towers: 42 tons, 0,7% Machinery: 1 931 tons, 32,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 990 tons, 16,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 546 tons, 9,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2 581 lbs / 1 171 Kg = 25,1 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18 Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 13,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,62 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,34 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,517 / 0,522 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,27 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,55 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,24 ft / 6,17 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 184,0% Waterplane Area: 17 506 Square feet or 1 626 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 85% Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 186 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,41 - Longitudinal: 1,02 - Overall: 0,45 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily Как ЛгКР планировались для применения в зоне до 300-400 миль от берега (базы) в качестве лидеров больших (тяжелых) ЭМ, поддержки легких сил и ближнего сопровождения тяжелых кораблей.

von Echenbach: Десант на Кюрасао? Возможности и ожидаемые результаты? 1940, август.

von Echenbach: Мотив "Красного Кавказа" для аи Германии: аи Бремзе-т, аи Германия Т-ЛгКР-МЗ laid down 1928 Displacement: 5 994 t light; 6 273 t standard; 6 690 t normal; 7 025 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (495,73 ft / 482,28 ft) x 45,93 ft x (19,69 / 20,42 ft) (151,10 m / 147,00 m) x 14,00 m x (6,00 / 6,22 m) Armament: 4 - 7,99" / 203 mm 50,0 cal guns - 270,21lbs / 122,57kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1928 Model 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 12 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 345 lbs / 610 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,315 t each, 7,887 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 360,89 ft / 110,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 98,43 ft / 30,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 22,97 ft / 7,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 115% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 3rd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Protected deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,23" / 82 mm Forecastle: 1,42" / 36 mm Quarter deck: 1,89" / 48 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 0,79" / 20 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric motors, 3 shafts, 62 957 shp / 46 966 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 2 400nm at 18,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 752 tons Complement: 369 - 480 Cost: £2,329 million / $9,317 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 407 tons, 6,1% - Guns: 390 tons, 5,8% - Weapons: 17 tons, 0,2% Armour: 2 157 tons, 32,2% - Belts: 975 tons, 14,6% - Armament: 271 tons, 4,0% - Armour Deck: 888 tons, 13,3% - Conning Towers: 24 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 1 960 tons, 29,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 470 tons, 22,0% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 696 tons, 10,4% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 3 946 lbs / 1 790 Kg = 15,5 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04 Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m Roll period: 14,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,84 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,09 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,537 / 0,544 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,50 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,87 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 37,00%, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m - Aft deck: 33,00%, 14,11 ft / 4,30 m, 14,11 ft / 4,30 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 14,11 ft / 4,30 m, 17,39 ft / 5,30 m - Average freeboard: 18,94 ft / 5,77 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143,4% Waterplane Area: 15 896 Square feet or 1 477 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92% Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 281 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,61 - Longitudinal: 1,51 - Overall: 0,67 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Возможно и 3х2 203. Немного сложнее, но возможна замена 88-мм на 105-мм и 203-мм на 210-мм. Дальность можно довести до 4800 миль при небольшом заглублении корпуса. D = 7600 полного.

von Echenbach: Вариации "Линдера"-"Гарибальди" для аи Германии. Основа - Т-Лг Бремзе аи Бремзе-л аи Германия ЛгКР-МЗ laid down 1928 Displacement: 5 977 t light; 6 273 t standard; 6 690 t normal; 7 025 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (495,73 ft / 482,28 ft) x 45,93 ft x (19,69 / 20,42 ft) (151,10 m / 147,00 m) x 14,00 m x (6,00 / 6,22 m) Armament: 8 - 5,91" / 150 mm 50,0 cal guns - 109,02lbs / 49,45kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1928 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 312 lbs / 595 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,315 t each, 7,887 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 354,33 ft / 108,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 118,11 ft / 36,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 113% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 3rd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Protected deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,23" / 82 mm Forecastle: 1,42" / 36 mm Quarter deck: 1,89" / 48 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 0,79" / 20 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Electric motors, 3 shafts, 62 957 shp / 46 966 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 2 400nm at 18,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 752 tons Complement: 369 - 480 Cost: £2,278 million / $9,113 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 379 tons, 5,7% - Guns: 363 tons, 5,4% - Weapons: 17 tons, 0,2% Armour: 2 186 tons, 32,7% - Belts: 976 tons, 14,6% - Armament: 299 tons, 4,5% - Armour Deck: 888 tons, 13,3% - Conning Towers: 24 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 1 960 tons, 29,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 452 tons, 21,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 713 tons, 10,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 4 019 lbs / 1 823 Kg = 39,0 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05 Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m Roll period: 14,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,79 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,08 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,537 / 0,544 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,50 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,87 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 37,00%, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m - Aft deck: 33,00%, 14,11 ft / 4,30 m, 14,11 ft / 4,30 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 14,11 ft / 4,30 m, 17,39 ft / 5,30 m - Average freeboard: 18,94 ft / 5,77 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143,4% Waterplane Area: 15 896 Square feet or 1 477 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93% Structure weight / hull surface area: 57 lbs/sq ft or 276 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,61 - Longitudinal: 1,48 - Overall: 0,66 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room

von Echenbach: Возможная организация кригсмарине: 1. ФОМ - океанские группы, отряды и эскадры. Корабли снабжения и ПЛ. 2. Боевой флот (флот прорыва/прикрытия - обеспечение выхода океанских групп). 3. Флот обороны (береговой обороны, эскортные силы, обеспечение судоходства и действий 1. и 2.) 4. Подводный флот (основная часть ПЛ). 5. Воздушный флот.

von Echenbach: Что-то по немцам попёрло. Как всегда - волны реальности. А если... 1. взять "Хиппера" и поставить дизели и снарядить 6-8 "ФАУ-1" с управлением от Henschel Hs 293 под контролем Арадо-196 бортовых. 2. Свой корпус и оснастку (эконом-вариант - лайнер) + палубная авиагруппа (гидро-?) 3. Отдельный "ракетный крейсер" в составе эскадры. Скорее всего - при хорошей видимости. или радары германцам надо совершенствовать..

GromoBoy: von Echenbach пишет: взять "Хиппера" и поставить дизели и снарядить 6-8 "ФАУ-1" с управлением от Henschel Hs 293 под контролем Арадо-196 бортовых Сложновата система, мне кажется. von Echenbach пишет: Отдельный "ракетный крейсер" в составе эскадры. А зойчем? von Echenbach пишет: Свой корпус и оснастку (эконом-вариант - лайнер) + палубная авиагруппа (гидро-?) Эрзац-авианосец? Ну, так делали, чоб и не.

von Echenbach: Дизели - для большей надёжности и экономности. Кстати - электро-генераторы, электромоторы и кабели - для возможности работв в условиях затоплений относительно 20-30-е 20-го В - м.б. ставить в "полумягкие" эластичные прорезиненые контейнеры с вентиляцией через аналог шнорхеля в корпусах. И, о корпусах (не только немецких): А если делать внутренние валы не по традиции, и утопленные внутрь, т.е. наружные валопроводы винтов образуют некоторую защиту внутреним/-ей линиям/линии. Насколько это: 1. могло быть, 2. технологически, 3. теоретически оправдано, 4. реализовано, 5. имеет смысл?

von Echenbach: Ещё один вариант проекта карманного ЛК, изначально на 6 (2х3) 280-мм, заменённых в 1936 на 4 (2х2) 380-мм. При усилении корпуса водоизмещение возрастет до 15 000 т. аи Роон кЛК-30, аи Германия аи КрмнЛК laid down 1930 Displacement: 8 550 t light; 9 307 t standard; 10 975 t normal; 12 310 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (578,73 ft / 564,30 ft) x 65,62 ft x (19,69 / 21,49 ft) (176,40 m / 172,00 m) x 20,00 m x (6,00 / 6,55 m) Armament: 4 - 14,96" / 380 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1 688,52lbs / 765,90kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 550 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 7 194 lbs / 3 263 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,323 t each, 7,935 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 99,21 lbs / 45,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,443 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 393,70 ft / 120,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 107% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm - 7,09" / 180 mm 2nd: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 58 624 shp / 43 734 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 14 000nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3 003 tons Complement: 535 - 696 Cost: £5,014 million / $20,057 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 473 tons, 13,4% - Guns: 1 457 tons, 13,3% - Weapons: 16 tons, 0,1% Armour: 2 509 tons, 22,9% - Belts: 1 008 tons, 9,2% - Armament: 430 tons, 3,9% - Armour Deck: 1 071 tons, 9,8% Machinery: 1 776 tons, 16,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 792 tons, 25,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 425 tons, 22,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 6 895 lbs / 3 128 Kg = 4,1 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22 Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 14,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,97 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,08 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a straight bulbous bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,527 / 0,541 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,60 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,62 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 18,23 ft / 5,56 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149,0% Waterplane Area: 25 907 Square feet or 2 407 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89% Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 448 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,59 - Longitudinal: 1,00 - Overall: 0,62 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room

von Echenbach: Иные Хипперы. Учитывая возможность веддения боя на два борта и в т.ч. при плохой видимости, немцы вернулись к схеме "Нассау"-"Блюхер" гексогонально 6х2 8" и 12 универсальных 105 в 6 установках. 195-мм установки возвышенно: нос-корма и между бортовыми ГК. аи-Зейдлий ткр, аи Германия аи ткр laid down 1936 Displacement: 12 315 t light; 12 895 t standard; 14 030 t normal; 14 939 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (635,17 ft / 620,08 ft) x 68,90 ft x (21,33 / 22,36 ft) (193,60 m / 189,00 m) x 21,00 m x (6,50 / 6,82 m) Armament: 8 - 7,99" / 203 mm 50,0 cal guns - 270,21lbs / 122,57kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 - 7,99" / 203 mm 50,0 cal guns - 270,21lbs / 122,57kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread 2 raised mounts 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 900 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 3 682 lbs / 1 670 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,540 t each, 9,242 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 110,23 lbs / 50,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,492 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm 311,68 ft / 95,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 45,93 ft / 14,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 77% of normal length Main Belt inclined 13,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 5,51" / 140 mm 2nd: 4,72" / 120 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 5,51" / 140 mm 3rd: 0,59" / 15 mm 0,31" / 8 mm 0,47" / 12 mm 4th: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,46" / 88 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,26" / 32 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 2,36" / 60 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80 595 shp / 60 124 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 6 000nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 2 043 tons Complement: 643 - 837 Cost: £5,837 million / $23,347 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 115 tons, 7,9% - Guns: 1 096 tons, 7,8% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 4 080 tons, 29,1% - Belts: 1 568 tons, 11,2% - Armament: 654 tons, 4,7% - Armour Deck: 1 768 tons, 12,6% - Conning Towers: 89 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 2 261 tons, 16,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 859 tons, 34,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 716 tons, 12,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 21 041 lbs / 9 544 Kg = 82,4 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16 Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m Roll period: 14,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,539 / 0,547 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 28,53 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 4,92 ft / 1,50 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 19,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m - Aft deck: 37,00%, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 19,59 ft / 5,97 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161,4% Waterplane Area: 30 715 Square feet or 2 854 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117% Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 601 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,01 - Longitudinal: 1,26 - Overall: 1,03 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Как бы мог проходить аи-"Новогодний бой" при: 1. новом проекте аи-"Хиппера", 2. более правильном применении 4 ЭМ (не только их отделить, но и приказать "решительно атаковать англ. ЭМ охранения и увлечь их к С-СЗ", вариант "петли улитки". аи-"Хиппер" мог бы прорваться прямо к конвою или/и действовать с другой стороны дымовой завесы англичан. ЭМ немцев при активном применении вполне могли раздавить заслон из англ. ЭМ. 3. "Шееру" тоже следует действовать более активно + 2 ЭМ

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