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Китай и Япония 19 век
von Echenbach: Какими могли быть аи китайские корабли? И японские, соответственно. В пределах сумм и водоизмещения суммарного, приближенного к реальному ходу событий. М.б.: Китай - 1. Динь-Юани: по типу англ. "Монарх" (герм. "Пруссен") с батареей СК (6-9 120-мм и по 1 150-мм в оконечностях) и полным поясом. 2. Лай-Юань: 4х1 210 ромбом и 4-8 120-мм. Чжи-Юани м.б. приближены к этому типу.
Ответов - 5
von Echenbach: аи бр "Динь-Юань"-2 2х2 305/22, 6х1 150/30, 8 47-мм, 2 та, борт - 300-150, палуба - 40, барбеты ГК - 300, Рубка и барбеты СК - 150 мм. laid down 1880 Barbette ship Displacement: 6 227 t light; 6 528 t standard; 6 999 t normal; 7 375 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (328,08 ft / 314,96 ft) x 59,06 ft x (19,69 / 20,59 ft) (100,00 m / 96,00 m) x 18,00 m x (6,00 / 6,28 m) Armament: 4 - 12,01" / 305 mm 25,0 cal guns - 724,95lbs / 328,83kg shells, 70 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1880 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 6 - 5,91" / 150 mm 35,0 cal guns - 89,02lbs / 40,38kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1880 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2,95lbs / 1,34kg shells, 250 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1880 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 3 457 lbs / 1 568 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,149 t each, 0,299 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 147,64 ft / 45,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 5,91" / 150 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 72% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,94" / 100 mm - 11,8" / 300 mm 2nd: - - 5,91" / 150 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 1,65" / 42 mm Forecastle: 1,65" / 42 mm Quarter deck: 1,65" / 42 mm - Conning towers: Forward 5,91" / 150 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5 410 ihp / 4 036 Kw = 15,00 kts Range 3 200nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 847 tons (100% coal) Complement: 382 - 497 Cost: £0,509 million / $2,034 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 460 tons, 6,6% - Guns: 460 tons, 6,6% - Weapons: 0 tons, 0,0% Armour: 2 818 tons, 40,3% - Belts: 1 494 tons, 21,3% - Armament: 830 tons, 11,9% - Armour Deck: 447 tons, 6,4% - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0,7% Machinery: 1 118 tons, 16,0% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 831 tons, 26,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 771 tons, 11,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 7 142 lbs / 3 239 Kg = 9,7 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 15,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,43 Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m Roll period: 12,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 98 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,96 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,669 / 0,674 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,33 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 17,75 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 15,42 ft / 4,70 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94,7% Waterplane Area: 14 498 Square feet or 1 347 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111% Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 494 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,73 - Longitudinal: 2,04 - Overall: 0,80 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: Динь-Юань - 3 ед, Лай-Юань - 6 ед (с близкой схемой ГК и 6х1 120-мм), КР-разведчики - 3 ед (4х1 150-мм), БРКЛ БО - 3 ед (1 - 210-мм, 1 - 150-мм), Мин-торп КЛ - 3 ед (2-3 120-мм, 3 ТА), большие МН - 3 (+6) - 3 ТА, малые МН - 6 (+6) - 2 ТА, Транспорты - 6.
von Echenbach: Японцы: Мацусимы с двумя (1х2 в барбете) - 260-мм/30. - 3 ед, Нанивы - 3, Чиода, Иосино, Акицусима - 3, с узким бортовым поясом, 3 бронекорвета, (3 бронефрегата - ?), 9 КЛ, 9 МН, 3 ТР. +: Идзуми - ? к типу Нинива или будет №4? Такасаго, Касаги... (2 203 и 8 120) + перевооруженный Иосино. Или Иосино как есть и относим условно к типу Такасаго №4? Акицусима, Чиода, Сума и Акаси - имеют по 1 -203 и 3 - 152, 4-6 120-мм. + или тонкий - 1,5" броневой пояс вдоль КМО высотой 1,5 м. Кто видел схемы Чиоды с планировавшимся 320-мм? Поделитесь пожалуйста. И на вкусное - м.б. сохранить "Унеби" или добавить Мацусиму №4? И + 4 авизо. Имеем 4х4 отряда.
von Echenbach: аи версия "Цзинь Юань": бранденбургообразное гладкопалубное воплощение БрКР прибрежного действия. laid down 1890 Displacement: 3 190 t light; 3 362 t standard; 3 606 t normal; 3 800 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (338,14 ft / 324,80 ft) x 52,49 ft x (13,12 / 13,67 ft) (103,07 m / 99,00 m) x 16,00 m x (4,00 / 4,17 m) Armament: 6 - 8,27" / 210 mm 40,0 cal guns - 270,82lbs / 122,84kg shells, 100 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1890 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 19,93lbs / 9,04kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1890 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 1 744 lbs / 791 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,234 t each, 0,469 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 216,54 ft / 66,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 78,74 ft / 24,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 29,53 ft / 9,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 103% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 2,52" / 64 mm - - 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm - - - Armoured deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 0,79" / 20 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 899 ihp / 5 147 Kw = 18,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 438 tons (100% coal) Complement: 232 - 302 Cost: £0,360 million / $1,438 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 230 tons, 6,4% - Guns: 229 tons, 6,3% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 653 tons, 18,1% - Belts: 398 tons, 11,0% - Armament: 37 tons, 1,0% - Armour Deck: 200 tons, 5,6% - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 250 tons, 34,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 058 tons, 29,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 416 tons, 11,5% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2 657 lbs / 1 205 Kg = 9,4 x 8,3 " / 210 mm shells or 4,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,90 Metacentric height 5,3 ft / 1,6 m Roll period: 9,6 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,39 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,564 / 0,571 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,19 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,26 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Aft deck: 37,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Average freeboard: 11,03 ft / 3,36 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 132,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100,3% Waterplane Area: 12 556 Square feet or 1 166 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92% Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 359 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,91 - Longitudinal: 1,29 - Overall: 0,94 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
von Echenbach: Ещё раз "а если бы" китайские "товарищи" попросили австрийских или немецких пролетариев "партнёров" построить 4-6 сильных малых броненосных крейсеров, возможно даже на верфях Китая. Проект -развитие "Бранденбурга" и немного из набросков "Анри 4", машины, мореходность и защита совсем не рекордные. Цзинь-Юань: laid down 1889, Barbette ship, Central citadel ship, Displacement: 3 390 t light; 3 602 t standard; 3 754 t normal; 3 875 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (335,91 ft / 324,80 ft) x 47,57 ft x (17,39 / 17,81 ft) (102,39 m / 99,00 m) x 14,50 m x (5,30 / 5,43 m) Armament: 8 - 8,27" / 210 mm 35,0 cal guns - 262,96lbs / 119,28kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1889 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft 8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 12,24lbs / 5,55kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1889 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas Weight of broadside 2 202 lbs / 999 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 15,0" / 381 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,226 t each, 0,905 t total submerged bow & stern tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 265,75 ft / 81,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 52,49 ft / 16,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 126% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,57" / 40 mm - 7,09" / 180 mm 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,02" / 26 mm Forecastle: 0,47" / 12 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm - Conning towers: Forward 5,51" / 140 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 220 ihp / 4 640 Kw = 18,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 274 tons (100% coal) Complement: 239 - 311 Cost: £0,385 million / $1,540 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 461 tons, 12,3% - Guns: 459 tons, 12,2% - Weapons: 2 tons, 0,0% Armour: 1 216 tons, 32,4% - Belts: 477 tons, 12,7% - Armament: 528 tons, 14,1% - Armour Deck: 183 tons, 4,9% - Conning Tower: 29 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 1 104 tons, 29,4% Hull, fittings & equipment: 609 tons, 16,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 364 tons, 9,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 1 446 lbs / 656 Kg = 5,2 x 8,3 " / 210 mm shells or 3,7 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23 Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 12,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 87 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,92 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,74 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,489 / 0,493 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,83 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18,02 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Forward deck: 44,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Aft deck: 24,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 13,48 ft / 4,11 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 125,5% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105,8% Waterplane Area: 10 193 Square feet or 947 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 82% Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 283 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,50 - Longitudinal: 1,30 - Overall: 0,55 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather Относительно реальных кораблей аи при увеличении на 1/4-1/5 тоннажа получает усиление артиллерии в 4 раза. ПМК можно взять 66- или 88-мм. Даже 107-мм. Если кого заинтересуют процессы развития аи-Беньянского / Северного флота Китая - подготовьте свои версии...
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