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Крупные корабли альт. флота СССР
von Echenbach: Крупные - основные, большие. Синонимов много. Плав. батареи, мониторы прибрежные, крейсера легкие и прочие, линкоры и броненосцы береговой обороны... какие пути могли бы быть избраны в зависимости от принятой стратегии и имеющихся возможностей? Экономические возможности близки к реалу - для ув. сочинителей.
von Echenbach: "Новые" лидеры: аи тип ЛдЭМ "Ленинград": 4х2 130-мм, 2 (2х2) 76-мм, 6х1 45-мм (37-мм), 2х4 та (2х3 или 1х4).Пояс КМУ - 14-16 мм. 35-36 уз. аи Ленинград ЛД ЭМ, аи СССР аи Лидер ЭМ laid down 1932 Displacement: 2 396 t light; 2 534 t standard; 2 658 t normal; 2 757 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (429,79 ft / 410,11 ft) x 36,09 ft x (13,12 / 13,47 ft) (131,00 m / 125,00 m) x 11,00 m x (4,00 / 4,11 m) Armament: 8 - 5,12" / 130 mm 50,0 cal guns - 70,97lbs / 32,19kg shells, 220 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 4 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 14,18lbs / 6,43kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward 6 - 1,77" / 45,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2,80lbs / 1,27kg shells, 450 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 641 lbs / 291 kg Main Torpedoes 8 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,331 t each, 10,644 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 110,23 lbs / 50,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 0,984 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 0,59" / 15 mm 246,06 ft / 75,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 92% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm 0,47" / 12 mm 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 0,35" / 9 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,47" / 12 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 59 507 shp / 44 392 Kw = 36,00 kts Range 1 600nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 223 tons Complement: 184 - 240 Cost: £1,464 million / $5,857 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 146 tons, 5,5% - Guns: 124 tons, 4,7% - Weapons: 23 tons, 0,8% Armour: 109 tons, 4,1% - Belts: 39 tons, 1,5% - Armament: 11 tons, 0,4% - Armour Deck: 56 tons, 2,1% - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 1 458 tons, 54,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 682 tons, 25,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 262 tons, 9,9% Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0,4% - Hull below water: 7 tons - Hull above water: 2 tons - On freeboard deck: 1 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 673 lbs / 305 Kg = 10,0 x 5,1 " / 130 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,35 Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m Roll period: 11,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,479 / 0,484 Length to Beam Ratio: 11,36 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 22,94 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Average freeboard: 16,85 ft / 5,14 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140,8% Waterplane Area: 10 059 Square feet or 934 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67% Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 183 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,51 - Longitudinal: 1,90 - Overall: 0,58 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room ЭМ пр АИ-7 2х2 130-мм, 2х2 76-мм возвышенно. (Обсуждался вариант с кормовой группой 130-мм и носовой - 76-мм), 4-6 45-мм, 2х3 ТА, 33-35 уз. аи пр. 7-ИАУ Свирепый, аи СССР аи ЭМ 2х2 130 laid down 1934 Displacement: 1 743 t light; 1 829 t standard; 1 918 t normal; 1 990 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (371,96 ft / 354,33 ft) x 29,53 ft x (13,12 / 13,47 ft) (113,37 m / 108,00 m) x 9,00 m x (4,00 / 4,11 m) Armament: 4 - 5,12" / 130 mm 50,0 cal guns - 70,97lbs / 32,19kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 2 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 14,18lbs / 6,43kg shells, 350 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount 4 - 1,77" / 45,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2,80lbs / 1,27kg shells, 450 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 323 lbs / 147 kg Main Torpedoes 8 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,339 t each, 10,708 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 110,23 lbs / 50,00 kg Depth Charges + 18 reloads - 0,984 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,31" / 8 mm 0,31" / 8 mm 2nd: 0,35" / 9 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - - Conning towers: Forward 0,47" / 12 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 46 671 shp / 34 816 Kw = 35,00 kts Range 1 400nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 161 tons Complement: 144 - 188 Cost: £1,105 million / $4,418 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 91 tons, 4,7% - Guns: 68 tons, 3,5% - Weapons: 23 tons, 1,2% Armour: 10 tons, 0,5% - Armament: 8 tons, 0,4% - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 1 048 tons, 54,6% Hull, fittings & equipment: 587 tons, 30,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 175 tons, 9,1% Miscellaneous weights: 7 tons, 0,4% - Hull below water: 5 tons - Hull above water: 1 tons - On freeboard deck: 1 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 534 lbs / 242 Kg = 8,0 x 5,1 " / 130 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18 Metacentric height 1,1 ft / 0,3 m Roll period: 11,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,50 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,15 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,489 / 0,494 Length to Beam Ratio: 12,00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,22 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Average freeboard: 16,62 ft / 5,06 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 186,8% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127,9% Waterplane Area: 7 176 Square feet or 667 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67% Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 173 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,54 - Longitudinal: 3,77 - Overall: 0,66 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room ЭМ пр 5 - 4х1 130-мм (7-7У РИ) и МН пр 6 - 3-4 100... в проработке.
von Echenbach: Схема аи лидера "Ленинград". Возможны изменения в расположении ТА (на корму), сдвиг кормовой группы башен/башнеподобных прикрытий-щитов ГК к миделю, перемещение средней установки 130-мм орудий за носовой мостик. УК/ЗК 76-мм м.б. 2-4 х 1 или х2.Возможна установка вдоль КМУ и в носовой части узкого (1,5-2,2 м) противоосколочного пояса 12-18 мм. 2-3 руля - ? в потоке от винтов...
Пан директор: Похоже что башни не в масштабе.
von Echenbach: Пан директор пишет: башни не в масштабе Немного да. :-) Проект модернизации при ремонте ЭМ т. Всадник. Переклассифицированных в СКР. Для Севера. Возможно и прочих "Добровольцев" (9 ед) таким-же образом переделают: изменен нос и полубак немного удлинен, поставлены 4-6 (8?) дизелей - на 2 вала. Второй вариант: Оставлен - переустановлен 1 котел (система?), как вспомогательный. аи Всадник модерн-1925, аи СССР х-ЭМ-аиСКР laid down 1926 Displacement: 620 t light; 643 t standard; 663 t normal; 679 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (244,82 ft / 236,22 ft) x 24,28 ft x (8,20 / 8,34 ft) (74,62 m / 72,00 m) x 7,40 m x (2,50 / 2,54 m) Armament: 3 - 4,02" / 102 mm 60,0 cal guns - 35,47lbs / 16,09kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 2 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 450 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 110 lbs / 50 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,835 t each, 3,338 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 110,23 lbs / 50,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,492 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,47" / 12 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 0,35" / 9 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,47" / 12 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 4 062 shp / 3 030 Kw = 21,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 36 tons Complement: 64 - 84 Cost: £0,162 million / $0,649 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 33 tons, 5,1% - Guns: 26 tons, 4,0% - Weapons: 7 tons, 1,1% Armour: 25 tons, 3,8% - Armament: 3 tons, 0,5% - Armour Deck: 21 tons, 3,2% - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 130 tons, 19,6% Hull, fittings & equipment: 431 tons, 65,0% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 43 tons, 6,5% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 1 130 lbs / 513 Kg = 34,9 x 4,0 " / 102 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04 Metacentric height 0,6 ft / 0,2 m Roll period: 12,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,26 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,26 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,493 / 0,496 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,73 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 17,59 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 26,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m - Average freeboard: 9,75 ft / 2,97 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 82,6% Waterplane Area: 3 948 Square feet or 367 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 188% Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 314 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,66 - Longitudinal: 4,06 - Overall: 1,81 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
von Echenbach: Аи "Экономный флот аи-СССР" Проект перестройки в ББО броненосцев "Андрей Первозванный" и "Император Павел 1": дизели, 9-12 уз, установка внутренних продольных переборок ПТЗ и наружных булей. ( Можно и третью 12" башню с Цесаревича в освободившееся место поставить - и опыт для рабочих с конструкторами). 4 (2х2) 12"/40, (12"/52 - ??? практика студентов-конструкторов :-) ), 12х1 120 (130)-мм, 3 (6х2 при модернизации) 76-мм. 4-6 десантных катера ( 2 катера и 4 гидросамолета - по обстановке), 2 СКА-ТЩ. В качестве "конструкторского поля" - Баяны с 1934 для авиатранспортов (снять 8" и поставить верхнюю полетную палубу с катапультами. laid down 1924 Displacement: 15 130 t light; 15 830 t standard; 16 002 t normal; 16 139 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (468,18 ft / 459,32 ft) x 78,74 ft x (26,25 / 26,43 ft) (142,70 m / 140,00 m) x 24,00 m x (8,00 / 8,06 m) Armament: 4 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread 12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 50,0 cal guns - 55,82lbs / 25,32kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1924 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 6 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 12,84lbs / 5,82kg shells, 250 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 4 066 lbs / 1 844 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 8,50" / 216 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 3,15" / 80 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Upper: 3,15" / 80 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Main Belt covers 88% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 7,87" / 200 mm 2nd: 3,54" / 90 mm - - 3rd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 2,36" / 60 mm Quarter deck: 2,36" / 60 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,99" / 203 mm, Aft 1,26" / 32 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 4 426 shp / 3 301 Kw = 13,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 8,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 309 tons Complement: 710 - 924 Cost: £2,671 million / $10,686 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 788 tons, 4,9% - Guns: 788 tons, 4,9% Armour: 4 036 tons, 25,2% - Belts: 1 680 tons, 10,5% - Armament: 606 tons, 3,8% - Armour Deck: 1 624 tons, 10,2% - Conning Towers: 127 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 146 tons, 0,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 058 tons, 62,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 872 tons, 5,5% Miscellaneous weights: 102 tons, 0,6% - Hull below water: 60 tons - Hull above water: 20 tons - On freeboard deck: 20 tons - Above deck: 2 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 70 211 lbs / 31 847 Kg = 81,1 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 10,7 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20 Metacentric height 4,9 ft / 1,5 m Roll period: 14,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,590 / 0,591 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,83 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 27 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,60 ft / 6,28 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 24,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138,4% Waterplane Area: 26 205 Square feet or 2 435 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 216% Structure weight / hull surface area: 270 lbs/sq ft or 1 317 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 2,02 - Longitudinal: 5,36 - Overall: 2,23 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: Вариант ББО с 3х2 12". Позиции ЗА могут быть улучшены. P.S.: Нечто подобно можно было-бы сотворть для БФ к 1914 году. Как раз были бы "почти самыми большими канонерками".
von Echenbach: Вариант проекта авиатранспорта для ЧФ: за основу взят десантный плашкоут-причал/ТР (см. в малых кораблях СССР) Краснокрылая чайка, аи СССР-25 аи Авиатранспорт laid down 1937 Displacement: 3 712 t light; 3 824 t standard; 4 003 t normal; 4 146 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (299,55 ft / 285,43 ft) x 62,34 ft x (13,12 / 13,49 ft) (91,30 m / 87,00 m) x 19,00 m x (4,00 / 4,11 m) Armament: 6 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 850 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread Weight of broadside 197 lbs / 89 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 0,71" / 18 mm 209,97 ft / 64,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 113% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - - Armoured deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 0,47" / 12 mm Forecastle: 0,47" / 12 mm Quarter deck: 0,47" / 12 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,98" / 25 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10 003 shp / 7 462 Kw = 19,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 322 tons Complement: 251 - 327 Cost: £0,974 million / $3,895 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 40 tons, 1,0% - Guns: 40 tons, 1,0% Armour: 235 tons, 5,9% - Belts: 88 tons, 2,2% - Armament: 22 tons, 0,6% - Armour Deck: 120 tons, 3,0% - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 277 tons, 6,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 161 tons, 54,0% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 290 tons, 7,3% Miscellaneous weights: 1 000 tons, 25,0% - Hull below water: 900 tons - Hull above water: 60 tons - On freeboard deck: 40 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 11 548 lbs / 5 238 Kg = 106,9 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2,7 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,78 Metacentric height 6,3 ft / 1,9 m Roll period: 10,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,01 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,16 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,600 / 0,604 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,58 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 20,45 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 14,44 ft / 4,40 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 52,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135,1% Waterplane Area: 13 563 Square feet or 1 260 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 213% Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 616 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,78 - Longitudinal: 4,33 - Overall: 1,95 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room 6 - 12 самолетов /6 - на нижней палубе в ангаре. Летающие лодки. Носовая катапульта, на корме приёмная площадка с двумя кранами. Гидросамолеты (лодки летающие) МИГ-лл11 (Микоян-Григорович аи) или БеГ-4/6 (Бериев-Григорович-4) крылья складные, 2 торпеды или 8х250 кг. сверху 2х2 12,7 (15)-мм + 2 20 (30)-мм в носу, 2 х 600 л.с. - 340 км/ч с грузом, 480 км/ч - истребительный вариант, с кормовой установкой 1х2 12,7-мм. Подвесные баки - до 1600 кг. Двухбалочная схема - ? Э: 2-4. Дальность - до 300-400 миль.
von Echenbach: Супер-Киров (аи Свердлов) КР (Лг или Т - ?), под влиянием Бруклинов, Миоко и пр. 18 (6х3) 152, 12 (6х2) 100, 12 37-мм, 2х3 ТА. Нужен ли таковой? аи Свердлов, аи СССР аи-суперКиров лг-т кр laid down 1936 Displacement: 12 148 t light; 12 656 t standard; 12 995 t normal; 13 267 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (612,22 ft / 587,27 ft) x 62,34 ft x (22,97 / 23,33 ft) (186,60 m / 179,00 m) x 19,00 m x (7,00 / 7,11 m) Armament: 18 - 5,98" / 152 mm 50,0 cal guns - 113,44lbs / 51,45kg shells, 170 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model 4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 2 raised mounts 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 12 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 6 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 raised mounts - superfiring 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 550 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 424 lbs / 1 099 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,540 t each, 9,242 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 110,23 lbs / 50,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,492 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 295,28 ft / 90,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 3,15" / 80 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 62,34 ft / 19,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 77% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 2nd: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,35" / 9 mm 0,47" / 12 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,76" / 70 mm Forecastle: 1,38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1,38" / 35 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 0,71" / 18 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77 993 shp / 58 183 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 611 tons Complement: 608 - 791 Cost: £5,086 million / $20,345 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 729 tons, 5,6% - Guns: 710 tons, 5,5% - Weapons: 19 tons, 0,1% Armour: 2 839 tons, 21,8% - Belts: 1 146 tons, 8,8% - Armament: 378 tons, 2,9% - Armour Deck: 1 249 tons, 9,6% - Conning Towers: 65 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 2 188 tons, 16,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 392 tons, 49,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 848 tons, 6,5% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 19 493 lbs / 8 842 Kg = 181,9 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03 Metacentric height 2,6 ft / 0,8 m Roll period: 16,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,56 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,541 / 0,544 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,42 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 27,66 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 27,00%, 24,61 ft / 7,50 m, 24,61 ft / 7,50 m - Aft deck: 42,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 21,31 ft / 6,50 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158,9% Waterplane Area: 26 370 Square feet or 2 450 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138% Structure weight / hull surface area: 161 lbs/sq ft or 787 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,45 - Longitudinal: 2,27 - Overall: 1,51 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Версия проекта-модернизации "Новиков": 3 - 130, 3 - 76 у, 4 - 37м, 10 ГБ, ГАС, + 20-30 МЗ. 32 уз. "Урезан суперпроект суперлидера Морозова с 7 или 9 130-мм. в сторону унификации. как фант. дополнение - КДП и орудия стабилизированы. laid down 1912 Displacement: 1 124 t light; 1 170 t standard; 1 237 t normal; 1 290 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (332,46 ft / 321,52 ft) x 24,61 ft x (9,84 / 10,17 ft) (101,33 m / 98,00 m) x 7,50 m x (3,00 / 3,10 m) Armament: 3 - 5,12" / 130 mm 50,0 cal guns - 70,97lbs / 32,19kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 3 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward 1 raised mount Weight of broadside 253 lbs / 115 kg Main Torpedoes 9 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m torpedoes - 0,502 t each, 4,521 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 70,55 lbs / 32,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,315 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,35" / 9 mm - - 2nd: 0,20" / 5 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,47" / 12 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 26 459 shp / 19 738 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 120 tons Complement: 103 - 135 Cost: £0,147 million / $0,588 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 58 tons, 4,7% - Guns: 49 tons, 3,9% - Weapons: 9 tons, 0,8% Armour: 5 tons, 0,4% - Armament: 4 tons, 0,3% - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 674 tons, 54,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 387 tons, 31,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 113 tons, 9,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 371 lbs / 168 Kg = 5,5 x 5,1 " / 130 mm shells or 0,6 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17 Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,3 m Roll period: 11,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,56 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,556 / 0,562 Length to Beam Ratio: 13,07 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,97 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 4,92 ft / 1,50 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 26,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 45,00%, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Average freeboard: 13,25 ft / 4,04 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 186,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115,9% Waterplane Area: 5 781 Square feet or 537 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 55% Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 156 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,62 - Longitudinal: 2,66 - Overall: 0,72 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: Реанимация флота в 1923-26: АИ - продолжение с "деталировкой": Урезаем "аппетиты" красвоенморов. Крейсера старые: Статус - учебные: БФ: Аврора и Диана - вместо средней машины - дизель, и возможно - в сочетании с электродвигателем и генераторами. 14 уз, 6 - 152, 4 - 130, 4 - 102, 4 - 76 и 4 - 37. ФСЛО: Учебно-боевые: Баян, Адмирал Макаров - дизели, (электродвигатели и электрогеенераторы - ?) Как бы совместить сию триаду по валам? если оставить ПМ или котлы для обогрева и всп. работ. 16-14-11 уз. 1800 миль, 3х1 203, 8 - 152 (130 или 102), 4 - 76, 4 - 37. Модернизированный Баян-аи laid down 1924 Displacement: 7 623 t light; 7 946 t standard; 8 108 t normal; 8 239 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (465,88 ft / 452,76 ft) x 55,77 ft x (21,33 / 21,59 ft) (142,00 m / 138,00 m) x 17,00 m x (6,50 / 6,58 m) Armament: 3 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 8 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 190 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1924 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 150 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 1 691 lbs / 767 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 6,89" / 175 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 26,25 ft / 8,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 2,36" / 60 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 89% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 6,30" / 160 mm 2nd: 2,36" / 60 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 5,35" / 136 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, ERROR: no steam engines, plus diesel motors, Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 7 400 shp / 5 521 Kw = 17,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 293 tons (60% coal) Complement: 426 - 555 Cost: £1,295 million / $5,179 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 374 tons, 4,6% - Guns: 374 tons, 4,6% Armour: 1 887 tons, 23,3% - Belts: 1 081 tons, 13,3% - Armament: 274 tons, 3,4% - Armour Deck: 486 tons, 6,0% - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 258 tons, 3,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 104 tons, 62,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 485 tons, 6,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 32 178 lbs / 14 596 Kg = 126,1 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 7,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07 Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 15,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 83 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,66 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,527 / 0,529 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,12 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,28 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m - Average freeboard: 17,31 ft / 5,28 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 26,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,5% Waterplane Area: 17 249 Square feet or 1 602 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 231% Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs/sq ft or 932 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 2,06 - Longitudinal: 3,81 - Overall: 2,19 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather ЧФ: Перевести Богатырь. Богатырь (Профинтерн), Кагул (Коминтерн) - проблемы модернизации ДУ сходны со всеми, но акцент - на дизели, как и при проекте восстановления в качестве самоходных бронеплавбатарей хЭБР (Потемкин, Три Святителя, Златоуст, Евстафий, две из которых - в ФСЛО). 12-14 уз, Вооружение как на Авроре - учебные. Для ТО: как учебные: Аскольд, Варяг. Параллельно 16 ЭМ т. Доброволец переклассифицировать в СКР с 2 102, 2 - 76, 1 - 37, 2х2 ТА (+20 МЗ), 21-19 уз. на дизелях. ; - на ЧФ, 4 - ТО, 4 - ФСЛО, 4 - БФ. Николай (Демократия) и Полтава (Фрунзе) в консервацию с предотвращением каннибализации. За Александра (Волю) с Бизертской эскадрой - торговаться с франками проходит как отдельная тема. ПЛ: какие получатся. ЧФ - 3 АГ, ФСЛО - 2 Барс, ТО - 2 Барс, 2 АГ, БФ - 4-6 Барс и АГ. Переделка недостроенных "Светлан" разобрана выше ( 3 - в "ТКР" с 3х2 8", 2 на ЧФ - в ПВО). На ЧФ или на ТО (Каспи)и - быстроходный авиатранспорт? Красный СоколЪ, аи СССР аи АвиаТР laid down 1926. 8-12-18 аппаратов, 1 (2, нос, корма/поворотная на корме?) катапульты 6 100, 6 - 76. две бронепалубы: верхняя, 18 мм над ангаром и нижняя, над погребами и КМО - 24 мм. Борт 40-60-(75)-80 - ? или ПТЗ? Для экономии возможно перестроить пароход с дизелями на 12-14 уз в 3,-5 000 т. Displacement: 5 714 t light; 5 878 t standard; 6 018 t normal; 6 129 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (482,61 ft / 465,88 ft) x 45,93 ft x (16,40 / 16,64 ft) (147,10 m / 142,00 m) x 14,00 m x (5,00 / 5,07 m) Armament: 6 - 3,94" / 100 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck aft 1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre 1 raised mount 6 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 350 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 272 lbs / 123 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 76% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 0,63" / 16 mm 0,31" / 8 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 3rd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - 4th: 0,16" / 4 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 1,26" / 32 mm Forecastle: 0,63" / 16 mm Quarter deck: 0,63" / 16 mm - Conning towers: Forward 1,26" / 32 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Direct drive, 0 shafts, 20 383 shp / 15 206 Kw = 24,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 12,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 252 tons Caution: Too much power for number of propellor shafts Complement: 341 - 444 Cost: £1,053 million / $4,211 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 45 tons, 0,7% - Guns: 45 tons, 0,7% Armour: 680 tons, 11,3% - Belts: 308 tons, 5,1% - Armament: 12 tons, 0,2% - Armour Deck: 350 tons, 5,8% - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 652 tons, 10,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 837 tons, 47,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 304 tons, 5,0% Miscellaneous weights: 1 500 tons, 24,9% - Hull below water: 1 200 tons - Hull above water: 200 tons - On freeboard deck: 100 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 12 977 lbs / 5 886 Kg = 120,2 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,01 Metacentric height 1,6 ft / 0,5 m Roll period: 15,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,18 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck , a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,600 / 0,602 Length to Beam Ratio: 10,14 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,36 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Forward deck: 42,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m - Aft deck: 25,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Average freeboard: 23,62 ft / 7,20 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 205,7% Waterplane Area: 16 311 Square feet or 1 515 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 167% Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 412 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,13 - Longitudinal: 5,21 - Overall: 1,32 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: Броненосные дизельные Супер-Эльпидифоры: бронеЭльпидифор дизель красн, аи СССР бр КЛ 3 203 или 6 140 laid down 1926 Displacement: 1 313 t light; 1 393 t standard; 1 407 t normal; 1 418 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (227,36 ft / 216,54 ft) x 45,93 ft x (9,84 / 9,90 ft) (69,30 m / 66,00 m) x 14,00 m x (3,00 / 3,02 m) Armament: 3 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward 6 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft 4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 860 lbs / 390 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 78,74 ft / 24,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 93% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,35" / 9 mm - 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 0,71" / 18 mm Forecastle: 0,47" / 12 mm Quarter deck: 0,47" / 12 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,00" / 0 mm, Aft 0,71" / 18 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2 257 shp / 1 684 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 6,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 25 tons Complement: 114 - 149 Cost: £0,334 million / $1,337 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 131 tons, 9,3% - Guns: 131 tons, 9,3% Armour: 228 tons, 16,2% - Belts: 118 tons, 8,4% - Armament: 23 tons, 1,6% - Armour Deck: 86 tons, 6,1% - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 72 tons, 5,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 882 tons, 62,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 94 tons, 6,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 3 784 lbs / 1 716 Kg = 14,8 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,65 Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m Roll period: 10,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,12 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,40 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,503 / 0,504 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,71 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18,01 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 8,86 ft / 2,70 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 45,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75,8% Waterplane Area: 6 911 Square feet or 642 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 185% Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 544 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,84 - Longitudinal: 4,07 - Overall: 1,99 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily По 2: с 203, с 152(130)/аи140, с 8 100. В дивизионе БРКЛ - 6. По дивизиону на флот. Отработка и восстановление технологий + малые "рыбацкие" мотоботы-ТЩ - всп. СКР на базе рыбацкого мотобота "Красный рыбакЪ": laid down 1928 Displacement: 105 t light; 110 t standard; 111 t normal; 112 t full load + 60 т груз/+ аппарель-пандус Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (125,57 ft / 118,11 ft) x 13,12 ft x (4,59 / 4,63 ft) (38,27 m / 36,00 m) x 4,00 m x (1,40 / 1,41 m) Armament: 1 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal gun - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose gun in deck mount, 1928 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft 3 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 450 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 1 x Single mount on sides, aft deck aft Weight of broadside 18 lbs / 8 kg Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - - Conning towers: Forward 0,24" / 6 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 174 shp / 130 Kw = 11,00 kts Range 600nm at 7,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3 tons Complement: 16 - 22 Cost: £0,021 million / $0,083 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 4 tons, 3,9% - Guns: 4 tons, 3,9% Armour: 2 tons, 1,5% - Armament: 1 tons, 1,3% - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 5 tons, 4,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 94 tons, 84,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6 tons, 5,4% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 468 lbs / 212 Kg = 4,3 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,00 Metacentric height 0,2 ft / 0,1 m Roll period: 11,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,28 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,61 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck , a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,546 / 0,547 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 12,44 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 2,62 ft / 0,80 m, 2,62 ft / 0,80 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 4,59 ft / 1,40 m, 5,25 ft / 1,60 m - Average freeboard: 5,07 ft / 1,55 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 27,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 59,3% Waterplane Area: 1 122 Square feet or 104 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 509% Structure weight / hull surface area: 51 lbs/sq ft or 248 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 2,54 - Longitudinal: 5,82 - Overall: 2,76 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: Сборные КЛ - Супер-Амгунь сборная, аи СССР аи КЛ laid down 1928 Displacement: 1 187 t light; 1 293 t standard; 1 306 t normal; 1 317 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (212,35 ft / 203,41 ft) x 39,37 ft x (9,84 / 9,90 ft) (64,72 m / 62,00 m) x 12,00 m x (3,00 / 3,02 m) Armament: 3 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward 6 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft 4 raised mounts 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 2 raised mounts 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,56lbs / 0,71kg shells, 550 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 866 lbs / 393 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,83" / 72 mm 137,80 ft / 42,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: 0,94" / 24 mm 62,34 ft / 19,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 104% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,94" / 24 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 0,47" / 12 mm Forecastle: 0,47" / 12 mm Quarter deck: 0,47" / 12 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,00" / 0 mm, Aft 0,94" / 24 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1 120 shp / 835 Kw = 12,00 kts Range 900nm at 7,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 24 tons Complement: 108 - 141 Cost: £0,334 million / $1,337 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 133 tons, 10,2% - Guns: 133 tons, 10,2% Armour: 208 tons, 15,9% - Belts: 129 tons, 9,9% - Armament: 23 tons, 1,8% - Armour Deck: 53 tons, 4,0% - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,2% Machinery: 35 tons, 2,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 812 tons, 62,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 119 tons, 9,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 3 461 lbs / 1 570 Kg = 13,6 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,47 Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 10,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,62 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,580 / 0,581 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,17 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 17,09 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 4,92 ft / 1,50 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Aft deck: 36,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Quarter deck: 18,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 8,79 ft / 2,68 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 42,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 69,3% Waterplane Area: 5 989 Square feet or 556 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 195% Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 556 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,93 - Longitudinal: 4,64 - Overall: 2,11 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: О разном: 1. Дополнение к рис. Лг быстроходной КЛ - Лидера с 4х2 130 от 24,01. 19 (см. выше аи лидер Ленинград). Арт. установки могут быть: а) с т.н. "межпалубным барбетом, б) быть стабилизированными, в) калибр увеличен до 138-140 мм. 2. Применение пенобетона (ПБ) в качестве водозамещающего объёма в бортовых отсеках. Кто интересовался проблемой: Предполагаю - незаслуженно обойдённый аспект аи-ПТЗ. Достоинства: легкий (удельный вес до 300-600 на м3), технологичен в производстве и обработке, обсуждаемо - способность поглощать энергию взрыва мины/торпеды, препятствует действию осколков на более глубокие конструкции, препятствует заполнению водой повреждённого отсека (Плотность пресной воды при 4° составляет 1000 кг/м3. Плот-ность соленой морской воды— 1010—1030 кг/м3. Плотность воздуха, например, равна 1,29 кг/м3 и почти в 800 раз меньше плотности воды). Возможно - под давлением газов ВВ ПБ будет "сжиматься" и терять часть свойств, но - предполагаю, что неповреждённая часть "заполнителя" сохранит свойства. В истории подобное применение ПБ "опоздало" - появились композитные материалы, исчезла необходимость столь солидной защиты в результате развития ЯО. Но... на 1900-1930-е гг... - ?
von Echenbach: О "Цесаревиче" после 20-го года. Наконец-то придумал. Иначе получалось, что БФ без "эскадренного" ледокола остается. На ЧФ и ФСЛО - по 2, из ЧМ броненосцев. Цесаревич: 1 этап: 12 3" Лендер-Тарновский (по две на место каждой 6" башни), восстановление работы 2-4 котлов и систем трубопроводов. 2 этап: Замена паровых машин на 2 дизеля (12400т, 12 уз - 2х1500 л.с. МАН). 2-4 дизеля по 100-200 л.с. для всп. работ и дизель-генераторов, 1 паро-электрогенераторная машина с 2-4 котлами на нефтяном отоплении / смешанном). Трубы срезаются, носовая - полностью (цистерна мазутная - ? в пределах КО). Були ПТЗ и в качестве опытового корабля для изучения систем ПВО и ПТЗ с пенобетоном и др. заполнителями отсеков. 3 этап: Срезать (не дожидаясь...) борт до уровня средней установки 6" башни (палуба полуюта и кормовой 12"), у носовой 12" башни и бывших носовых :2 башен высоту оставить прежней. Установить 12х2 76 универсальных (гибрид Минизини-Лендера), модернизировать-прикупить новые ПУАО с ПУЗО - таковых желательно прикупить или лицензионно производить в 20-30 ед. АИ - т.е. делают экономный флот. При "послезнании" - без оного никак-с... :-) Основные составляющие "послезнанийного" развития: ПВО, "правильное" развитие авиации, связи, МТО, ... и армии. Дополнительная мотивация для "Эскадренных броненосных ледоколов": техническая - восстановление в процессе ремонта-модернизации утраченных технологий и приобретение квалификации работников. Тактическая - тяжелая броненосная плавбатарея самоходная. Крейсера, включая и тяжелые - малоэффективны для подавления. Т.о. уровень защищенности объекта значительно возрастает. Минимальные затраты на поддержание в работоспособном-боеспособном состоянии. Учебно-практические корабли начальных этапов. Что делать в таких, аи-тепличных, условиях с АП и П1 - ?
GromoBoy: А получится из него нормальный ледокол? Нос немного не тот.
von Echenbach: GromoBoy пишет: А получится из него нормальный ледокол? Нос немного не тот. Нам "нормальный" ледокол не нужен. У нас, в аи, он - броненосный. Нос переделать - возможно на втором-третьем этапе службы-модернизации. Одновременно с усилением ПМЗ бортов. А вообще-то, таранный нос - как основа опоры для противоминного бушприта, да и ТЩ-ТР-БрБО таранить зимой в порту легче будет. :-)
dr5r: А как ИП1? Из него тихоходный ледокольный БРБО гораздо гораздее должен получиться. У меня получается, что при снятии 8" на бербаты, удалении родных котлов и машин, а также установке новой ГЭУ на 14 уз. максимального хода хватит всего каких-то 6 000 л.с. Три (нохаб-поляр или Виккерс/МАН а ля тепловозы Гаккеля/Ломоносова) тысяче+сильных дизель-генератора на вал. Или по пять в ряд мелких МАНов (от первых Малюток по 680 л.с., габариты одиночного дизеля всего-то 2800х1600х900) на два гребных электродвигателя -- отлично помещаются. Можно в качестве компенсации от снятых грузов поставить 12" башню или две от Андрея Первозванного.
dr5r: *PRIVAT*
von Echenbach: dr5r пишет: Или по пять в ряд мелких МАНов По моему впечатлению - многие моторы сложно-ненадежно с т.зр. конструкции валосопряжения. Хотя в жизни ни разу не технический спец. :-) Германцы на карманниках делали нечто подобное. dr5r пишет: в качестве компенсации от снятых грузов поставить 12" башню или две от Андрея Первозванного. 1. Если перестраивать - очень много переделывать надо на ИП1-АП. Получается дредноутный ББО-монитор-ледокол. Я предлагал довооружать АП и ИП1 третьей башней 12" (нечто "новосделанной" или с Цесаревича) на месте кормовых КО и 8" 2. Но если "новый-восстанавливаемый" флот по экономному принципу - то рациональнее 2х2 12", 8 120-130-152, особенно при принятой аи-линейке калибров (7,62-15-30-;%??? скорее всего 45 не нужен - 60 - 100 - 140 - 203 - 305 - 406/420) для укомплектования батарей старыми стволами и поболее ЗА. При соответственных новых приборах управления стрельбой. ЗА может получить импульс к развитию "стабилизированных" систем. 3. На данный момент предполагаю более скромные требования к скорости: до 9-12 уз, и желательно - добавление булей. 4. Если на Балтике сохраняем АП и ИП1, то необходимость в Цесаревиче в целом - отпадает.
Инженер Сидоров: von Echenbach пишет: По моему впечатлению - многие моторы сложно-ненадежно с т.зр. конструкции валосопряжения. Хотите много мелких дизелюшек? Осваивайте электродвижение. Ставим 10 (16, 20) сколько надо дизгенераторов постоянного тока, пару мощных (желательно - двухъякорных) электромоторов. И не будет проблем ни с муфтами, ни с редукторами, ни с длинными валолиниями.
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