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Казематный сверхдредноут
Заинька: А.К. Сюда стащу разные матерьялы про казематный линкор, изобретенный ув. Ша-Юлинем:)
von Echenbach: оживилась тема на цусиме, и у меня идеи появились - БР казематный 1900 г. Саблезуб, Табуин Заи казематный бр 1 тип laid down 1900 Displacement: 9 477 t light; 10 325 t standard; 10 752 t normal; 11 094 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (431,81 ft / 426,51 ft) x 65,62 ft x (21,65 / 22,23 ft) (131,62 m / 130,00 m) x 20,00 m x (6,60 / 6,77 m) Armament: 8 - 13,39" / 340 mm 35,0 cal guns - 1 124,47lbs / 510,05kg shells, 70 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 100 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model 2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 6 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 1,48lbs / 0,67kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft Weight of broadside 12 735 lbs / 5 776 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 9,84" / 250 mm 278,87 ft / 85,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 7,09" / 180 mm 147,64 ft / 45,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Upper: 8,66" / 220 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 101% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 11,0" / 280 mm - - 2nd: 8,66" / 220 mm - - 3rd: 4,02" / 102 mm - - 4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - - - Armoured deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 0,98" / 25 mm Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm - Conning towers: Forward 8,27" / 210 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, ERROR: Revise drives, 2 shafts, 11 396 ihp / 8 502 Kw = 18,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 12,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 770 tons (100% coal) Complement: 527 - 686 Cost: £1,083 million / $4,333 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 372 tons, 12,8% - Guns: 1 372 tons, 12,8% Armour: 3 242 tons, 30,1% - Belts: 2 220 tons, 20,7% - Armament: 551 tons, 5,1% - Armour Deck: 383 tons, 3,6% - Conning Tower: 87 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 1 781 tons, 16,6% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 082 tons, 28,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 275 tons, 11,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 13 139 lbs / 5 960 Kg = 11,0 x 13,4 " / 340 mm shells or 1,6 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,61 Metacentric height 5,9 ft / 1,8 m Roll period: 11,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,56 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,89 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and a round stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,621 / 0,624 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,50 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 20,65 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13,00 degrees Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,93 ft / 5,16 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123,8% Waterplane Area: 20 873 Square feet or 1 939 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93% Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 617 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,11 - Longitudinal: 2,16 - Overall: 1,19 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: Это был проект как-бы БР (семи-дредноутЪ). А есмли увеличить ГК до 6 (8 - следующее поколение) в 12-14 дм, то вот и казематник искомый. И с добавлением бортовых (полупогруженных?) малых корпусов: запасы нефти, доп. ПТЗ, ЗА и ПМА.
Пан директор: Если брать классические казематные броненосцы, которые по-английски называются Central battery ship, то там было 10-12 орудий сосредоточенных в центральной части с хорошей толской защитой. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Lissa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Bellerophon_(1865) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Alexandra_(1875) Обратите внимание на схемы бронирования.
von Echenbach: Вообще-то если поставить наклонную бортовую броню и применить "ebonite mouse" для внешних отсеков, то ... - ? Кстати, а аналогию этого "ebonite mouse" можно ли было создать в начале 20 века?
von Echenbach: Зая!!! У Вас появились опасные и талантливые соперники" : http://alternathistory.com/vundervaffe-dlya-krigsmarin Совмещение поповки с космодредноутом из "звездных войн".
von Echenbach: Версия сверхдредноута "особого казематного типа" Супер-Зая: ГК 15" (можно немного увеличив размеры поставить 16") - сектора 150 град (можно и 120 град. оставить). Стрельба - побортно, смена курса на сближении или отходе (вот она, та идея, которую не мог понять раньше!). Пристрелочный и противокрейсерский - 8", линейно возвышенно, классика. ПМК 4" на верхней палубе в легком каземате. Можно в проект добавить и ПТЗ с булями. Путиловский и Балтийский заводы. laid down 1912 Displacement: 21 420 t light; 23 430 t standard; 24 059 t normal; 24 562 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (746,84 ft / 728,35 ft) x 91,86 ft x (22,97 / 23,33 ft) (227,64 m / 222,00 m) x 28,00 m x (7,00 / 7,11 m) Armament: 12 - 15,00" / 381 mm 42,0 cal guns - 1 636,38lbs / 742,25kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1912 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount - superfiring 16 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 32,66lbs / 14,81kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1912 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,98lbs / 5,89kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 22 270 lbs / 10 102 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 377,30 ft / 115,00 m 11,48 ft / 3,50 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 80% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 4,72" / 120 mm - 2nd: 7,87" / 200 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 7,87" / 200 mm 3rd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,39" / 10 mm - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,99" / 76 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,46" / 37 mm - Conning towers: Forward 10,24" / 260 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 59 346 shp / 44 272 Kw = 26,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 12,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 132 tons (100% coal) Complement: 965 - 1 255 Cost: £2,189 million / $8,758 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 2 734 tons, 11,4% - Guns: 2 734 tons, 11,4% Armour: 6 767 tons, 28,1% - Belts: 2 267 tons, 9,4% - Armament: 1 921 tons, 8,0% - Armour Deck: 2 395 tons, 10,0% - Conning Tower: 184 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 2 603 tons, 10,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 317 tons, 38,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 639 tons, 11,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 40 966 lbs / 18 582 Kg = 24,3 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 3,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,39 Metacentric height 7,8 ft / 2,4 m Roll period: 13,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,77 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,70 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,548 / 0,551 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,93 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 29,17 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 24,61 ft / 7,50 m - Average freeboard: 23,61 ft / 7,20 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 216,5% Waterplane Area: 47 755 Square feet or 4 437 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108% Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 800 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,96 - Longitudinal: 1,51 - Overall: 1,00 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: "Жанр, наверное, дизельпанковое фэнтези. ПсевдоАИ, конечно. http://tsushima.su/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=1554899"... - есть мистика, аллегории и аллюзии, элементы новояза с "клиповым" кадрированием, многослойность отсылок. Не арьерграунд, читать можно. Пока можно и даже изложение интригует.
von Echenbach: 3-я глава... огромный вал эмоций, рваное изложение (если считать авторским стилем - будем терпеть ) в описаниях. Перекликается /всё пока/ с некоторыми моментами Аи Николаева и Багрянцева + оттенки Булгакова, Толкина и Камши с Азимовым. Линия техно-органического симбиоза и перехода телесности/образа намекает на что-то вроде Амбера (карты-миры) и Дюну + что-то \кто-то из фантастов 60-70-х... Вождь пропадунцев-наёмников чрезмерно жесток относительно своих (? ли) возможностей и уровня власти. И непременный "кацман-лоцман-боцман". Бы и рисунков корабликов не помешаетЪ. По описаниям - "нельсоно-монтаны" пришлых.
von Echenbach: Появились рисунко-схемы на первоисточнике. Приличные - в основном всё понятно + появляется возможность альтернативить аи-фэнт. корабли. По МРнели есть вопросы, но отрывок мал для оценки. Развитые технологии и рабы, гипнозообразное действие и мистика. Грамматика - текст требует вычитки.
von Echenbach: Продолжение - Главы 7-8 гораздо более читабельны и логичны\связаны.
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