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Скандинавский альянс
von Echenbach: Версия развития, предварительная, Скандинавии при ведущей финансовой роли Дании с унией Дания-Швеция-Норвегия и Голландия. Краткая схема аи-событий: Дания-Швеция в союзе с Францией подавляют Пруссию и Голландию. Пока Англия борется с Испанией. Южная Германия с Альпами - Австрия, к Австрии отходит часть Балкан. Германия - конфедерация малых королевств с выходом к морю у Данцига. Имеется "польский" коридор. Польша разделена между Пруссией, Австрией, Швецией. Центральная Польша с Варшавой и вислинским устьем - территория собственно королевства. Ход событий с 1580 г. будет уточняться. Коллеги - прошу высказывать ваши предложения.
Ответов - 44, стр:
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von Echenbach: Особенности развития протестантства, экспедиция Вильгельма. хм - "завоевателя" - при мощнейшей "5 колонне". Нидерланды и их аи-история. НТР (научтехрев) и новый-аи Эриксон. Возможности нового аи-мира! (гм... почти скромная реклама) ;-)
von Echenbach: Временно оставим политические и экономические события в исторической аи-Северной Европе. Стим-панк наше всё :-)) Первые бронекорабли - бронепрамы. Развитие идеи д,Армона (были применены в неудачной попытке осады Гибралтара. В Швеции и Дании: с малой осадкой и поначалу буксируемые, защищены с фронта и бортов батареи из 6 орудий железом в 3-4 дюйма. Позднее появилась крыша над батареей и колесный движитель. Следующее новшество - бронетаран торпедный. Что-то от идей французских ББО и английского Полифемуса: 2 18-дм. глств и 4-6 24-ф с 2-4 метательными минами и 2-4 шестовыми.
von Echenbach: АИ - Карл XII или Карл XI. Не всегда понятная цепь событий Ри.
von Echenbach: Один из аи-вариантов "дредноута": удваиваем в линейно-возвышенном стиле классическую схему. т.е. 10х2 ГК. Вариант абсурда. близок к технике И. Николаева (другой мир и т.л.) - 20х2. Реализуется в 10х4, можно и 5х8 в дав яруса, упоминая не к ночи будь вспомненного "Кирсарджа". В целом, пост на о чём...
von Echenbach: Версии проекта дредноута (в т.ч. и в мире МИМФ) созданные в Голландии и Швеции с участием России: laid down 1909 Displacement: 11 054 t light; 11 816 t standard; 12 402 t normal; 12 871 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (479,78 ft / 465,88 ft) x 65,62 ft x (26,25 / 26,99 ft) (146,24 m / 142,00 m) x 20,00 m x (8,00 / 8,23 m) Armament: 8 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 16 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 7 488 lbs / 3 397 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 242,78 ft / 74,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 3,15" / 80 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 26,25 ft / 8,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 80% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 10,6" / 270 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 2nd: 1,77" / 45 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 1,18" / 30 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,77" / 45 mm Quarter deck: 1,77" / 45 mm - Conning towers: Forward 8,66" / 220 mm, Aft 4,72" / 120 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 27 188 shp / 20 282 Kw = 23,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 055 tons Complement: 586 - 763 Cost: £1,151 million / $4,605 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 437 tons, 11,6% - Guns: 1 437 tons, 11,6% Armour: 3 963 tons, 32,0% - Belts: 1 490 tons, 12,0% - Armament: 1 114 tons, 9,0% - Armour Deck: 1 205 tons, 9,7% - Conning Towers: 155 tons, 1,2% Machinery: 1 236 tons, 10,0% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 418 tons, 35,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 348 tons, 10,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 14 526 lbs / 6 589 Kg = 16,8 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06 Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 15,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,08 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,541 / 0,546 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,10 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,22 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 15,34 ft / 4,68 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105,7% Waterplane Area: 22 020 Square feet or 2 046 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103% Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 765 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,03 - Longitudinal: 2,26 - Overall: 1,12 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room 2 - с паровыми машинами: laid down 1909 Displacement: 11 073 t light; 11 835 t standard; 12 402 t normal; 12 856 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (479,78 ft / 465,88 ft) x 65,62 ft x (26,25 / 26,97 ft) (146,24 m / 142,00 m) x 20,00 m x (8,00 / 8,22 m) Armament: 8 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 16 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 7 488 lbs / 3 397 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 285,43 ft / 87,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 3,15" / 80 mm 173,88 ft / 53,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 94% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 10,6" / 270 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 2nd: 1,77" / 45 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 1,18" / 30 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,77" / 45 mm Quarter deck: 1,77" / 45 mm - Conning towers: Forward 8,66" / 220 mm, Aft 4,72" / 120 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 27 188 ihp / 20 282 Kw = 23,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 021 tons Complement: 586 - 763 Cost: £1,245 million / $4,980 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 437 tons, 11,6% - Guns: 1 437 tons, 11,6% Armour: 4 087 tons, 33,0% - Belts: 1 614 tons, 13,0% - Armament: 1 114 tons, 9,0% - Armour Deck: 1 205 tons, 9,7% - Conning Towers: 155 tons, 1,2% Machinery: 1 901 tons, 15,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 648 tons, 29,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 329 tons, 10,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 11 374 lbs / 5 159 Kg = 13,1 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 15,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,98 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,09 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,541 / 0,546 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,10 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,22 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 15,34 ft / 4,68 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105,7% Waterplane Area: 22 020 Square feet or 2 046 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92% Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 651 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,88 - Longitudinal: 1,87 - Overall: 0,95 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Dampir: von Echenbach пишет: Displacement: 11 054 t light; 11 816 t standard; 12 402 t normal; 12 871 t full load Что-то слабо верю, тысячи четыре накинуть бы надо
von Echenbach: Пересчитаю. Но иногда шарпей даёт при некоторых сочетаниях параметров размеров просто фантастические скорости или возможности нагрузок.
Dampir: Class and type: España-class battleship Displacement: Normal: 15,700 t (15,500 long tons) Full Load: 16,450 t (16,190 long tons) Length: 140 m (460 ft) o/a Beam: 24 m (79 ft) Draft: 7.8 m (26 ft) Propulsion: 12 × Yarrow coal-fired boilers 4 × turbines 4 × shafts Speed: 19.5 knots (36.1 km/h) Range: 5,000 nmi (9,300 km) at 10 knots (19 km/h) Complement: 854 Armament: 8 × 305 mm (12 in)/50 cal guns 20 × 102 mm (4 in) guns 4 × 3-pounder guns 2 × machine guns Armor: Belt armor: 203 mm (8 in) Deck: 38 mm (1 in) Turrets: 203 mm Conning tower: 254 mm (10 in)
von Echenbach: Пересчитал шарпия. При небольшом уменьшении брони борта и немного башен (лоб) - получился ещё более "экономный" кораблик. В отличие от реальной "Эспаньи": нет ПТП, 3 машины с редуктором (аи опережение), аи форма крпуса (транцевая корма, нет тарана, бОльшая осадка). Малая дальность плавания. Малая мореходность / прочность для океана - не думаю, что столь существенно значимо. laid down 1909 Displacement: 10 183 t light; 10 900 t standard; 11 325 t normal; 11 664 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (479,78 ft / 465,88 ft) x 65,62 ft x (26,25 / 26,81 ft) (146,24 m / 142,00 m) x 20,00 m x (8,00 / 8,17 m) Armament: 8 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 16 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 180 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 7 488 lbs / 3 397 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 249,34 ft / 76,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 209,97 ft / 64,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 82% of normal length Main Belt inclined 13,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 9,45" / 240 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 2nd: 2,36" / 60 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 1,18" / 30 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 9,45" / 240 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 25 257 shp / 18 842 Kw = 23,00 kts Range 2 400nm at 12,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 763 tons Complement: 548 - 713 Cost: £1,109 million / $4,434 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 419 tons, 12,5% - Guns: 1 419 tons, 12,5% Armour: 3 830 tons, 33,8% - Belts: 1 737 tons, 15,3% - Armament: 1 121 tons, 9,9% - Armour Deck: 856 tons, 7,6% - Conning Towers: 115 tons, 1,0% Machinery: 1 148 tons, 10,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 786 tons, 33,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 141 tons, 10,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 12 586 lbs / 5 709 Kg = 14,5 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 15,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,17 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,494 / 0,498 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,10 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,38 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 15,70 ft / 4,78 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108,1% Waterplane Area: 21 063 Square feet or 1 957 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96% Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 688 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,90 - Longitudinal: 2,09 - Overall: 0,97 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room В чём ошибки? М.б. более удачная компоновка и более слабая артиллерия ГК с 12"/40 против 12"/50?
Dampir: von Echenbach пишет: В чём ошибки? М.б. более удачная компоновка и более слабая артиллерия ГК с 12"/40 против 12"/50? https://tsushima.borda.ru/?1-13-80-00000216-000-40-0
von Echenbach: Спасибо. Освежил. Скорее всего, "удача" - за счёт "аи-новых" технологий и облегчения конструкции. Кстати, пока только идея: для размещения погребов при линейном (частично линейно-возвышенном) расположении установок устройство погребов производить в продольном среднем отсеке, подразделённом на два - по числу башен, подъёмно-зарядных колодца-барбета и 2-4 малых погребов, разделенных промежуточными двойными переборками с внутренними пружинными (?) демпферами и, как следствие - возможностью перегрузки боезапаса из одного в другой отсеки. Лучшая защищённость в глубине корпуса, некоторое "удлинение".
von Echenbach: Крыльчатый движитель Фойт-Шнайдера (в ри - на моторных тральщиках Германии) - насколько эффективен может быть для крупных кораблей?
Dampir: von Echenbach пишет: насколько эффективен может быть для крупных кораблей К. п. д. почти равен к. п. д. гребного винта, но движитель сложный и громоздкий, требует в месте установки наличия протяженного участка плоского днища, неудобен подвод мощности, при скоростях свыше 20 уз возникает кавитация.
von Echenbach: А почему бы шведо-датчанам или голландцам не развить идею ББО "Роял Соверейн" с 4 башнями и 5 орудиями в оригинале? Носовую делаем трехорудийной, прочие - двухорудийными, получаем 9 орудий. Или все трехорудийные? И м.б. развитие "Принц Альберт" 1864 по К.Ки и О. Паркесу - 4х2 ГК, хотя в истории двухорудийные серийные башни пошли на Монархе и Церберусах
von Echenbach: Проект ББО на корпусе Тримарана с очень близким расстоянием между бортовыми корпусами относительно центрального: 2-3 м. Внешние - несут основную бортовую броню, общаяя броневая палуба, 3 ПМ(или другие). ГК в башнях - ромбическая система, по одной башне на бортовых корпусах (фактически вынесенные були).
von Echenbach: Ещё одна версия ББО. На базе проекта ВКАМ. Отказ от длинного полубака и бортовых башен и погребов, були. ПМА - в казематных установках. Версия имеет резерв для изменения-модернизации. Для желающих авторов и аи стран - т.е. то, зачем аи привлекает. аи ббо , мимф сасанид голл исп аи ббо laid down 1892 Central citadel ship Displacement: 3 785 t light; 4 014 t standard; 4 128 t normal; 4 220 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (263,84 ft / 252,62 ft) x 45,93 ft (Bulges 59,06 ft) x (13,12 / 13,44 ft) (80,42 m / 77,00 m) x 14,00 m (Bulges 18,00 m) x (4,00 / 4,10 m) Armament: 6 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1892 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,98lbs / 5,89kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1892 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1892 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 674 lbs / 759 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 157,48 ft / 48,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 85,30 ft / 26,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 96% of normal length Main Belt inclined 7,00 degrees (positive = in) - Hull Bulges: 0,47" / 12 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,57" / 40 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 4 408 ihp / 3 289 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 206 tons (60% coal) Complement: 256 - 334 Cost: £0,389 million / $1,556 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 458 tons, 11,1% - Guns: 458 tons, 11,1% Armour: 1 383 tons, 33,5% - Belts: 503 tons, 12,2% - Bulges: 28 tons, 0,7% - Armament: 281 tons, 6,8% - Armour Deck: 536 tons, 13,0% - Conning Towers: 35 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 750 tons, 18,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 193 tons, 28,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 344 tons, 8,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 5 211 lbs / 2 364 Kg = 20,4 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,55 Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 13,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,65 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,738 / 0,736 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,28 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,06 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 4,92 ft / 1,50 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 42,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 12,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 13,33 ft / 4,06 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,1% Waterplane Area: 10 050 Square feet or 934 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95% Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 481 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,90 - Longitudinal: 2,56 - Overall: 0,99 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather Вариант с 2х2 12", желательно удлинить на 10 м, но... Displacement: 3 766 t light; 4 014 t standard; 4 128 t normal; 4 220 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (263,84 ft / 252,62 ft) x 45,93 ft (Bulges 59,06 ft) x (13,12 / 13,44 ft) (80,42 m / 77,00 m) x 14,00 m (Bulges 18,00 m) x (4,00 / 4,10 m) Armament: 4 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 80 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1892 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,98lbs / 5,89kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1892 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1892 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 3 448 lbs / 1 564 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 0,59" / 15 mm 52,49 ft / 16,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 120% of normal length Main Belt inclined 7,00 degrees (positive = in) - Hull Bulges: 0,47" / 12 mm 216,54 ft / 66,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,57" / 40 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 4 408 ihp / 3 289 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 206 tons (60% coal) Complement: 256 - 334 Cost: £0,514 million / $2,057 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 670 tons, 16,2% - Guns: 670 tons, 16,2% Armour: 1 449 tons, 35,1% - Belts: 553 tons, 13,4% - Bulges: 37 tons, 0,8% - Armament: 289 tons, 7,0% - Armour Deck: 536 tons, 13,0% - Conning Towers: 35 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 717 tons, 17,4% Hull, fittings & equipment: 930 tons, 22,5% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 362 tons, 8,8% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2 213 lbs / 1 004 Kg = 2,6 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,49 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 14,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,71 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,62 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,738 / 0,736 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,28 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,06 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 4,92 ft / 1,50 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 42,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 12,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 13,33 ft / 4,06 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,1% Waterplane Area: 10 050 Square feet or 934 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73% Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 414 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,55 - Longitudinal: 2,04 - Overall: 0,63 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: Возвращаясь к германскому МН миноносцу типа Т-35. аи Датчане развили-"довели до ума" идею лидера ТКА - и отказались от этой идеи, переведя корабли в ударные дегкие прибрежные силы. В РИ подобноу получилось у немцев с проектом Т-39, по-моему. тип 666 - Хугин аи, аи Дания аи МН laid down 1932 Displacement: 614 t light; 636 t standard; 666 t normal; 690 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (267,82 ft / 255,91 ft) x 27,56 ft x (8,86 / 9,05 ft) (81,63 m / 78,00 m) x 8,40 m x (2,70 / 2,76 m) Armament: 2 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 3 - 1,65" / 42,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2,28lbs / 1,03kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 78 lbs / 35 kg Main Torpedoes 9 - 20,9" / 530 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,317 t each, 11,857 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 141,10 lbs / 64,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,630 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - 3rd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,28" / 7 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 18 031 shp / 13 451 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 800nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 54 tons Complement: 65 - 85 Cost: £0,334 million / $1,334 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 40 tons, 6,0% - Guns: 16 tons, 2,4% - Weapons: 25 tons, 3,7% Armour: 4 tons, 0,6% - Armament: 3 tons, 0,5% - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 343 tons, 51,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 227 tons, 34,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 52 tons, 7,8% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 256 lbs / 116 Kg = 2,4 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,33 Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m Roll period: 10,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,13 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,373 / 0,378 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,29 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18,71 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 20,34 ft / 6,20 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 25,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 45,00%, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 11,81 ft / 3,60 m - Average freeboard: 13,33 ft / 4,06 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102,1% Waterplane Area: 4 429 Square feet or 412 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 60% Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 125 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,48 - Longitudinal: 3,69 - Overall: 0,58 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Модификация - под влиянием шведов сократили количество ТА с 3 до 2 (1-?) и установили всю артиллерию в спаренных установках, т.е. удвоили артиллерию при небольшом росте водоизмещения и увеличении высоты борта. Тип 777 - аи Мунин, аи Дания аи МН laid down 1933 Displacement: 612 t light; 636 t standard; 666 t normal; 690 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (267,82 ft / 255,91 ft) x 27,56 ft x (8,86 / 9,05 ft) (81,63 m / 78,00 m) x 8,40 m x (2,70 / 2,76 m) Armament: 2 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 6 - 1,65" / 42,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2,28lbs / 1,03kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 85 lbs / 39 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 20,9" / 530 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,317 t each, 7,905 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 141,10 lbs / 64,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,630 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - 3rd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,28" / 7 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20 548 shp / 15 329 Kw = 33,00 kts Range 800nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 54 tons Complement: 65 - 85 Cost: £0,339 million / $1,357 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 31 tons, 4,7% - Guns: 15 tons, 2,2% - Weapons: 17 tons, 2,5% Armour: 4 tons, 0,5% - Armament: 3 tons, 0,5% - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 350 tons, 52,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 227 tons, 34,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 54 tons, 8,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 232 lbs / 105 Kg = 2,1 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,30 Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m Roll period: 10,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,373 / 0,378 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,29 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18,71 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 73 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 20,34 ft / 6,20 m, 17,72 ft / 5,40 m - Forward deck: 25,00%, 17,72 ft / 5,40 m, 17,72 ft / 5,40 m - Aft deck: 45,00%, 11,15 ft / 3,40 m, 11,15 ft / 3,40 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 11,15 ft / 3,40 m, 12,47 ft / 3,80 m - Average freeboard: 14,17 ft / 4,32 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130,2% Waterplane Area: 4 429 Square feet or 412 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 53% Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 117 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,42 - Longitudinal: 4,36 - Overall: 0,53 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room
von Echenbach: О развитии: или 4х1 или 2х2 или из 4х1 идет 8 (4х2). Можно соотнести к австро-венгерцам 1 МВ или сасанидам.
von Echenbach: Вариант немецкого-голландского ЭМ (на основе Z-36м): 33 уз, 6 котлов (ширина труб на рисунке может быть изменена в зависимости от расположения дымоходов), давление пара- до 30-40 атм, 2400-3200 миль на 14 уз, 3х2 127 (или 120 - в универсальном варианте), 4х2 42 (или 38), 1-2х4 20 -мм, 2-3х4 ТА 533-мм. Защита - 9-12 мм локально. 2600 т. ) Просится дизель на третий, средний, вал. и модернизированный вариант:
Dampir: von Echenbach пишет: ариант немецкого-голландского ЭМ (на основе Z-36м): где у него машинное отделение? возвышенную башню с торпедным аппаратом менять надоть
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