Скандинавский альянс

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Скандинавский альянс

von Echenbach: Версия развития, предварительная, Скандинавии при ведущей финансовой роли Дании с унией Дания-Швеция-Норвегия и Голландия. Краткая схема аи-событий: Дания-Швеция в союзе с Францией подавляют Пруссию и Голландию. Пока Англия борется с Испанией. Южная Германия с Альпами - Австрия, к Австрии отходит часть Балкан. Германия - конфедерация малых королевств с выходом к морю у Данцига. Имеется "польский" коридор. Польша разделена между Пруссией, Австрией, Швецией. Центральная Польша с Варшавой и вислинским устьем - территория собственно королевства. Ход событий с 1580 г. будет уточняться. Коллеги - прошу высказывать ваши предложения.

Ответов - 44, стр: 1 2 3 All

von Echenbach: Особенности развития протестантства, экспедиция Вильгельма. хм - "завоевателя" - при мощнейшей "5 колонне". Нидерланды и их аи-история. НТР (научтехрев) и новый-аи Эриксон. Возможности нового аи-мира! (гм... почти скромная реклама) ;-)

von Echenbach: Временно оставим политические и экономические события в исторической аи-Северной Европе. Стим-панк наше всё :-)) Первые бронекорабли - бронепрамы. Развитие идеи д,Армона (были применены в неудачной попытке осады Гибралтара. В Швеции и Дании: с малой осадкой и поначалу буксируемые, защищены с фронта и бортов батареи из 6 орудий железом в 3-4 дюйма. Позднее появилась крыша над батареей и колесный движитель. Следующее новшество - бронетаран торпедный. Что-то от идей французских ББО и английского Полифемуса: 2 18-дм. глств и 4-6 24-ф с 2-4 метательными минами и 2-4 шестовыми.

von Echenbach: АИ - Карл XII или Карл XI. Не всегда понятная цепь событий Ри.

von Echenbach: Один из аи-вариантов "дредноута": удваиваем в линейно-возвышенном стиле классическую схему. т.е. 10х2 ГК. Вариант абсурда. близок к технике И. Николаева (другой мир и т.л.) - 20х2. Реализуется в 10х4, можно и 5х8 в дав яруса, упоминая не к ночи будь вспомненного "Кирсарджа". В целом, пост на о чём...

von Echenbach: Версии проекта дредноута (в т.ч. и в мире МИМФ) созданные в Голландии и Швеции с участием России: laid down 1909 Displacement: 11 054 t light; 11 816 t standard; 12 402 t normal; 12 871 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (479,78 ft / 465,88 ft) x 65,62 ft x (26,25 / 26,99 ft) (146,24 m / 142,00 m) x 20,00 m x (8,00 / 8,23 m) Armament: 8 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 16 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 7 488 lbs / 3 397 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 242,78 ft / 74,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 3,15" / 80 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 26,25 ft / 8,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 80% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 10,6" / 270 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 2nd: 1,77" / 45 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 1,18" / 30 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,77" / 45 mm Quarter deck: 1,77" / 45 mm - Conning towers: Forward 8,66" / 220 mm, Aft 4,72" / 120 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 27 188 shp / 20 282 Kw = 23,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 055 tons Complement: 586 - 763 Cost: £1,151 million / $4,605 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 437 tons, 11,6% - Guns: 1 437 tons, 11,6% Armour: 3 963 tons, 32,0% - Belts: 1 490 tons, 12,0% - Armament: 1 114 tons, 9,0% - Armour Deck: 1 205 tons, 9,7% - Conning Towers: 155 tons, 1,2% Machinery: 1 236 tons, 10,0% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 418 tons, 35,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 348 tons, 10,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 14 526 lbs / 6 589 Kg = 16,8 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06 Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 15,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,08 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,541 / 0,546 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,10 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,22 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 15,34 ft / 4,68 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77,0% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105,7% Waterplane Area: 22 020 Square feet or 2 046 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103% Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 765 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,03 - Longitudinal: 2,26 - Overall: 1,12 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room 2 - с паровыми машинами: laid down 1909 Displacement: 11 073 t light; 11 835 t standard; 12 402 t normal; 12 856 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (479,78 ft / 465,88 ft) x 65,62 ft x (26,25 / 26,97 ft) (146,24 m / 142,00 m) x 20,00 m x (8,00 / 8,22 m) Armament: 8 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 16 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 7 488 lbs / 3 397 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 285,43 ft / 87,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 3,15" / 80 mm 173,88 ft / 53,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 94% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 10,6" / 270 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 2nd: 1,77" / 45 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 1,18" / 30 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,77" / 45 mm Quarter deck: 1,77" / 45 mm - Conning towers: Forward 8,66" / 220 mm, Aft 4,72" / 120 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 27 188 ihp / 20 282 Kw = 23,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 021 tons Complement: 586 - 763 Cost: £1,245 million / $4,980 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 437 tons, 11,6% - Guns: 1 437 tons, 11,6% Armour: 4 087 tons, 33,0% - Belts: 1 614 tons, 13,0% - Armament: 1 114 tons, 9,0% - Armour Deck: 1 205 tons, 9,7% - Conning Towers: 155 tons, 1,2% Machinery: 1 901 tons, 15,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 648 tons, 29,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 329 tons, 10,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 11 374 lbs / 5 159 Kg = 13,1 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 15,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,98 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,09 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,541 / 0,546 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,10 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,22 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 15,34 ft / 4,68 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105,7% Waterplane Area: 22 020 Square feet or 2 046 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92% Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 651 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,88 - Longitudinal: 1,87 - Overall: 0,95 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room

Dampir: von Echenbach пишет: Displacement: 11 054 t light; 11 816 t standard; 12 402 t normal; 12 871 t full load Что-то слабо верю, тысячи четыре накинуть бы надо

von Echenbach: Пересчитаю. Но иногда шарпей даёт при некоторых сочетаниях параметров размеров просто фантастические скорости или возможности нагрузок.

Dampir: Class and type: España-class battleship Displacement: Normal: 15,700 t (15,500 long tons) Full Load: 16,450 t (16,190 long tons) Length: 140 m (460 ft) o/a Beam: 24 m (79 ft) Draft: 7.8 m (26 ft) Propulsion: 12 × Yarrow coal-fired boilers 4 × turbines 4 × shafts Speed: 19.5 knots (36.1 km/h) Range: 5,000 nmi (9,300 km) at 10 knots (19 km/h) Complement: 854 Armament: 8 × 305 mm (12 in)/50 cal guns 20 × 102 mm (4 in) guns 4 × 3-pounder guns 2 × machine guns Armor: Belt armor: 203 mm (8 in) Deck: 38 mm (1 in) Turrets: 203 mm Conning tower: 254 mm (10 in)

von Echenbach: Пересчитал шарпия. При небольшом уменьшении брони борта и немного башен (лоб) - получился ещё более "экономный" кораблик. В отличие от реальной "Эспаньи": нет ПТП, 3 машины с редуктором (аи опережение), аи форма крпуса (транцевая корма, нет тарана, бОльшая осадка). Малая дальность плавания. Малая мореходность / прочность для океана - не думаю, что столь существенно значимо. laid down 1909 Displacement: 10 183 t light; 10 900 t standard; 11 325 t normal; 11 664 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (479,78 ft / 465,88 ft) x 65,62 ft x (26,25 / 26,81 ft) (146,24 m / 142,00 m) x 20,00 m x (8,00 / 8,17 m) Armament: 8 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward 16 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 180 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 7 488 lbs / 3 397 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 249,34 ft / 76,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 209,97 ft / 64,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 82% of normal length Main Belt inclined 13,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 9,45" / 240 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 9,45" / 240 mm 2nd: 2,36" / 60 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 1,18" / 30 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 9,45" / 240 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 25 257 shp / 18 842 Kw = 23,00 kts Range 2 400nm at 12,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 763 tons Complement: 548 - 713 Cost: £1,109 million / $4,434 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 419 tons, 12,5% - Guns: 1 419 tons, 12,5% Armour: 3 830 tons, 33,8% - Belts: 1 737 tons, 15,3% - Armament: 1 121 tons, 9,9% - Armour Deck: 856 tons, 7,6% - Conning Towers: 115 tons, 1,0% Machinery: 1 148 tons, 10,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 786 tons, 33,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 141 tons, 10,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 12 586 lbs / 5 709 Kg = 14,5 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 15,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,17 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,494 / 0,498 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,10 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,38 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 15,70 ft / 4,78 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108,1% Waterplane Area: 21 063 Square feet or 1 957 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96% Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 688 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,90 - Longitudinal: 2,09 - Overall: 0,97 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room В чём ошибки? М.б. более удачная компоновка и более слабая артиллерия ГК с 12"/40 против 12"/50?

Dampir: von Echenbach пишет: В чём ошибки? М.б. более удачная компоновка и более слабая артиллерия ГК с 12"/40 против 12"/50? https://tsushima.borda.ru/?1-13-80-00000216-000-40-0

von Echenbach: Спасибо. Освежил. Скорее всего, "удача" - за счёт "аи-новых" технологий и облегчения конструкции. Кстати, пока только идея: для размещения погребов при линейном (частично линейно-возвышенном) расположении установок устройство погребов производить в продольном среднем отсеке, подразделённом на два - по числу башен, подъёмно-зарядных колодца-барбета и 2-4 малых погребов, разделенных промежуточными двойными переборками с внутренними пружинными (?) демпферами и, как следствие - возможностью перегрузки боезапаса из одного в другой отсеки. Лучшая защищённость в глубине корпуса, некоторое "удлинение".

von Echenbach: Крыльчатый движитель Фойт-Шнайдера (в ри - на моторных тральщиках Германии) - насколько эффективен может быть для крупных кораблей?

Dampir: von Echenbach пишет: насколько эффективен может быть для крупных кораблей К. п. д. почти равен к. п. д. гребного винта, но движитель сложный и громоздкий, требует в месте установки наличия протяженного участка плоского днища, неудобен подвод мощности, при скоростях свыше 20 уз возникает кавитация.

von Echenbach: А почему бы шведо-датчанам или голландцам не развить идею ББО "Роял Соверейн" с 4 башнями и 5 орудиями в оригинале? Носовую делаем трехорудийной, прочие - двухорудийными, получаем 9 орудий. Или все трехорудийные? И м.б. развитие "Принц Альберт" 1864 по К.Ки и О. Паркесу - 4х2 ГК, хотя в истории двухорудийные серийные башни пошли на Монархе и Церберусах

von Echenbach: Проект ББО на корпусе Тримарана с очень близким расстоянием между бортовыми корпусами относительно центрального: 2-3 м. Внешние - несут основную бортовую броню, общаяя броневая палуба, 3 ПМ(или другие). ГК в башнях - ромбическая система, по одной башне на бортовых корпусах (фактически вынесенные були).

von Echenbach: Ещё одна версия ББО. На базе проекта ВКАМ. Отказ от длинного полубака и бортовых башен и погребов, були. ПМА - в казематных установках. Версия имеет резерв для изменения-модернизации. Для желающих авторов и аи стран - т.е. то, зачем аи привлекает. аи ббо , мимф сасанид голл исп аи ббо laid down 1892 Central citadel ship Displacement: 3 785 t light; 4 014 t standard; 4 128 t normal; 4 220 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (263,84 ft / 252,62 ft) x 45,93 ft (Bulges 59,06 ft) x (13,12 / 13,44 ft) (80,42 m / 77,00 m) x 14,00 m (Bulges 18,00 m) x (4,00 / 4,10 m) Armament: 6 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1892 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,98lbs / 5,89kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1892 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1892 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 674 lbs / 759 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 157,48 ft / 48,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,18" / 30 mm 85,30 ft / 26,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 96% of normal length Main Belt inclined 7,00 degrees (positive = in) - Hull Bulges: 0,47" / 12 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,57" / 40 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 4 408 ihp / 3 289 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 206 tons (60% coal) Complement: 256 - 334 Cost: £0,389 million / $1,556 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 458 tons, 11,1% - Guns: 458 tons, 11,1% Armour: 1 383 tons, 33,5% - Belts: 503 tons, 12,2% - Bulges: 28 tons, 0,7% - Armament: 281 tons, 6,8% - Armour Deck: 536 tons, 13,0% - Conning Towers: 35 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 750 tons, 18,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 193 tons, 28,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 344 tons, 8,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 5 211 lbs / 2 364 Kg = 20,4 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,55 Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 13,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,65 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,738 / 0,736 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,28 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,06 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 4,92 ft / 1,50 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 42,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 12,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 13,33 ft / 4,06 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,1% Waterplane Area: 10 050 Square feet or 934 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95% Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 481 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,90 - Longitudinal: 2,56 - Overall: 0,99 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather Вариант с 2х2 12", желательно удлинить на 10 м, но... Displacement: 3 766 t light; 4 014 t standard; 4 128 t normal; 4 220 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (263,84 ft / 252,62 ft) x 45,93 ft (Bulges 59,06 ft) x (13,12 / 13,44 ft) (80,42 m / 77,00 m) x 14,00 m (Bulges 18,00 m) x (4,00 / 4,10 m) Armament: 4 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 829,70lbs / 376,34kg shells, 80 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1892 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,98lbs / 5,89kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1892 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1892 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 3 448 lbs / 1 564 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 0,59" / 15 mm 52,49 ft / 16,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 120% of normal length Main Belt inclined 7,00 degrees (positive = in) - Hull Bulges: 0,47" / 12 mm 216,54 ft / 66,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,57" / 40 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 4 408 ihp / 3 289 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 206 tons (60% coal) Complement: 256 - 334 Cost: £0,514 million / $2,057 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 670 tons, 16,2% - Guns: 670 tons, 16,2% Armour: 1 449 tons, 35,1% - Belts: 553 tons, 13,4% - Bulges: 37 tons, 0,8% - Armament: 289 tons, 7,0% - Armour Deck: 536 tons, 13,0% - Conning Towers: 35 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 717 tons, 17,4% Hull, fittings & equipment: 930 tons, 22,5% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 362 tons, 8,8% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2 213 lbs / 1 004 Kg = 2,6 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,49 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 14,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,71 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,62 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,738 / 0,736 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,28 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,06 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 4,92 ft / 1,50 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 42,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 12,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 13,33 ft / 4,06 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,1% Waterplane Area: 10 050 Square feet or 934 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73% Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 414 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,55 - Longitudinal: 2,04 - Overall: 0,63 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

von Echenbach: Возвращаясь к германскому МН миноносцу типа Т-35. аи Датчане развили-"довели до ума" идею лидера ТКА - и отказались от этой идеи, переведя корабли в ударные дегкие прибрежные силы. В РИ подобноу получилось у немцев с проектом Т-39, по-моему. тип 666 - Хугин аи, аи Дания аи МН laid down 1932 Displacement: 614 t light; 636 t standard; 666 t normal; 690 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (267,82 ft / 255,91 ft) x 27,56 ft x (8,86 / 9,05 ft) (81,63 m / 78,00 m) x 8,40 m x (2,70 / 2,76 m) Armament: 2 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 3 - 1,65" / 42,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2,28lbs / 1,03kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 78 lbs / 35 kg Main Torpedoes 9 - 20,9" / 530 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,317 t each, 11,857 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 141,10 lbs / 64,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,630 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - 3rd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,28" / 7 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 18 031 shp / 13 451 Kw = 32,00 kts Range 800nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 54 tons Complement: 65 - 85 Cost: £0,334 million / $1,334 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 40 tons, 6,0% - Guns: 16 tons, 2,4% - Weapons: 25 tons, 3,7% Armour: 4 tons, 0,6% - Armament: 3 tons, 0,5% - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 343 tons, 51,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 227 tons, 34,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 52 tons, 7,8% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 256 lbs / 116 Kg = 2,4 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,33 Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m Roll period: 10,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,13 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,373 / 0,378 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,29 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18,71 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 20,34 ft / 6,20 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 25,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 45,00%, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 10,50 ft / 3,20 m, 11,81 ft / 3,60 m - Average freeboard: 13,33 ft / 4,06 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102,1% Waterplane Area: 4 429 Square feet or 412 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 60% Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 125 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,48 - Longitudinal: 3,69 - Overall: 0,58 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Модификация - под влиянием шведов сократили количество ТА с 3 до 2 (1-?) и установили всю артиллерию в спаренных установках, т.е. удвоили артиллерию при небольшом росте водоизмещения и увеличении высоты борта. Тип 777 - аи Мунин, аи Дания аи МН laid down 1933 Displacement: 612 t light; 636 t standard; 666 t normal; 690 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (267,82 ft / 255,91 ft) x 27,56 ft x (8,86 / 9,05 ft) (81,63 m / 78,00 m) x 8,40 m x (2,70 / 2,76 m) Armament: 2 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 6 - 1,65" / 42,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2,28lbs / 1,03kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 85 lbs / 39 kg Main Torpedoes 6 - 20,9" / 530 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,317 t each, 7,905 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 141,10 lbs / 64,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,630 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - 3rd: 0,28" / 7 mm - - - Conning towers: Forward 0,28" / 7 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20 548 shp / 15 329 Kw = 33,00 kts Range 800nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 54 tons Complement: 65 - 85 Cost: £0,339 million / $1,357 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 31 tons, 4,7% - Guns: 15 tons, 2,2% - Weapons: 17 tons, 2,5% Armour: 4 tons, 0,5% - Armament: 3 tons, 0,5% - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 350 tons, 52,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 227 tons, 34,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 54 tons, 8,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 232 lbs / 105 Kg = 2,1 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,30 Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m Roll period: 10,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,373 / 0,378 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,29 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18,71 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 73 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 20,34 ft / 6,20 m, 17,72 ft / 5,40 m - Forward deck: 25,00%, 17,72 ft / 5,40 m, 17,72 ft / 5,40 m - Aft deck: 45,00%, 11,15 ft / 3,40 m, 11,15 ft / 3,40 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 11,15 ft / 3,40 m, 12,47 ft / 3,80 m - Average freeboard: 14,17 ft / 4,32 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130,2% Waterplane Area: 4 429 Square feet or 412 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 53% Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 117 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,42 - Longitudinal: 4,36 - Overall: 0,53 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room

von Echenbach: О развитии: или 4х1 или 2х2 или из 4х1 идет 8 (4х2). Можно соотнести к австро-венгерцам 1 МВ или сасанидам.

von Echenbach: Вариант немецкого-голландского ЭМ (на основе Z-36м): 33 уз, 6 котлов (ширина труб на рисунке может быть изменена в зависимости от расположения дымоходов), давление пара- до 30-40 атм, 2400-3200 миль на 14 уз, 3х2 127 (или 120 - в универсальном варианте), 4х2 42 (или 38), 1-2х4 20 -мм, 2-3х4 ТА 533-мм. Защита - 9-12 мм локально. 2600 т. ) Просится дизель на третий, средний, вал. и модернизированный вариант:

Dampir: von Echenbach пишет: ариант немецкого-голландского ЭМ (на основе Z-36м): где у него машинное отделение? возвышенную башню с торпедным аппаратом менять надоть

von Echenbach: Dampir пишет: где у него машинное отделение? Между башнями на палубе. На рис не прорисовал вентиляционные шахты - есть запас длины от сдвига ТА и немного - башен. Либо паропроводы, либо валы длинные. Пока выбрал длинные паропроводы. И предполагаю разместить машины во внешних отсеках при разделении корпуса на три основные продольные, в крайнем случае - классика, на две. - секции, Башни ставить "пирамидой" - сомнительно мне, корма в перегруз пойдет. P.S.: Погреба могут быть узкие и вытянутые в длину, тогда и турбины по бокам погреба можно (??? ли) разместить, а в междубашенном пространстве всякие редукторы и холодильники с насосами и аварийными дизелями-генераторами. Или МО асимметрично - 1-е вдоль смещенных погребов, второе (и третье) - в мождубашенном пространстве. Или ЭУ с электрогенераторами без длинных паропроводов.

GromoBoy: А зачем он такой заднестреляющий?

Dampir: Это типа реинкарнация Бертена или отзеркаленный "Нельсон"

von Echenbach: Dampir пишет: Это типа реинкарнация Бертена или отзеркаленный "Нельсон" :-)) GromoBoy пишет: такой заднестреляющий? Разгрузка носовой части, улучшение мореходности. Снижение верхних весов и низкий силуэт. Наличие "необстреливаемой " зоны в 30 градусов по носу (по 15 +- на борт, у средней установки ГК ещё выпадают 15 град сектора обстрела в корму) не имеет большого тактического значения. В последующем развитии можно и носовую 4-ю установку ГК добавить.

von Echenbach: Эскортный (конвойный) броненосец "Шропшир" Англия. Ответ на "карманные линкоры" и тяжелые крейсера. laid down 1936 Displacement: 12 255 t light; 13 109 t standard; 13 417 t normal; 13 663 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (444,26 ft / 433,07 ft) x 75,46 ft (Bulges 88,58 ft) x (22,97 / 23,35 ft) (135,41 m / 132,00 m) x 23,00 m (Bulges 27,00 m) x (7,00 / 7,12 m) Armament: 6 - 14,96" / 380 mm 42,0 cal guns - 1 623,53lbs / 736,42kg shells, 100 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 8 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 32,66lbs / 14,81kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 950 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 10 018 lbs / 4 544 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10,6" / 270 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 196,85 ft / 60,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 82% of normal length - Hull Bulges: 0,08" / 2 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 12,6" / 320 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 10,2" / 260 mm 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 0,79" / 20 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 5 205 shp / 3 883 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 3 600nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 554 tons Complement: 623 - 810 Cost: £4,676 million / $18,703 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 075 tons, 8,0% - Guns: 1 075 tons, 8,0% Armour: 3 376 tons, 25,2% - Belts: 1 643 tons, 12,2% - Bulges: 10 tons, 0,1% - Armament: 435 tons, 3,2% - Armour Deck: 1 220 tons, 9,1% - Conning Towers: 67 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 146 tons, 1,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 659 tons, 57,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 162 tons, 8,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 42 230 lbs / 19 155 Kg = 25,2 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 6,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,57 Metacentric height 7,0 ft / 2,1 m Roll period: 14,0 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,36 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,88 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a straight bulbous bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,533 / 0,534 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,89 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 20,81 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 32 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 48,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 22,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Average freeboard: 17,72 ft / 5,40 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 36,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120,9% Waterplane Area: 22 447 Square feet or 2 085 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 171% Structure weight / hull surface area: 245 lbs/sq ft or 1 195 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,70 - Longitudinal: 4,34 - Overall: 1,86 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather Можно назвать "океанские (мореходные) канонерские лодки".

GromoBoy: Чёт сомневаюсь. Для линкора слишком мелкий и тормозной (и отжирает договорное водоизмещение), для ТКр опять же слишком тормозной, для канонерки слишком большой и узкоспециализированный.

von Echenbach: Броненосный ренессанс Голландии: Prins der Nederlanden, Nederlanden БРКР laid down 1876 Central citadel ship. 3 шт, поданы как броненосные тараны (отголоски РИ броненосных таранов англичан и французов, скандинавов, Гуаскар и Санкт-Георг), в планах: отказ от тарана, переход к "океанскому" типу корпуса, + В корме "ангар" на 2 минных катера по 30-20 т) Displacement: 3 576 t light; 3 767 t standard; 4 151 t normal; 4 458 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (278,87 ft / 269,03 ft) x 45,93 ft x (20,34 / 21,56 ft) (85,00 m / 82,00 m) x 14,00 m x (6,20 / 6,57 m) Armament: 2 - 10,24" / 260 mm 25,0 cal guns - 432,94lbs / 196,38kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mount, 1876 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre 6 - 6,69" / 170 mm 30,0 cal guns - 122,81lbs / 55,71kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1876 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread 6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 6 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 30,0 cal guns - 4,63lbs / 2,10kg shells, 200 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1876 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 631 lbs / 740 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,120 t each, 0,240 t total submerged bow tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 8,66" / 220 mm 190,29 ft / 58,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 4,33" / 110 mm 72,18 ft / 22,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 109% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 8,66" / 220 mm 5,91" / 150 mm 6,89" / 175 mm 2nd: 4,33" / 110 mm - - 3rd: 0,47" / 12 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,24" / 57 mm Forecastle: 0,71" / 18 mm Quarter deck: 0,71" / 18 mm - Conning towers: Forward 6,69" / 170 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5 252 ihp / 3 918 Kw = 16,00 kts Range 4 200nm at 8,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 692 tons (100% coal) Complement: 258 - 336 Cost: £0,355 million / $1,421 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 186 tons, 4,5% - Guns: 186 tons, 4,5% - Weapons: 0 tons, 0,0% Armour: 1 223 tons, 29,5% - Belts: 680 tons, 16,4% - Armament: 175 tons, 4,2% - Armour Deck: 331 tons, 8,0% - Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0,9% Machinery: 1 150 tons, 27,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 016 tons, 24,5% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 575 tons, 13,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2 171 lbs / 985 Kg = 5,1 x 10,2 " / 260 mm shells or 8,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,43 Metacentric height 2,9 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 11,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,46 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,59 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak, a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,578 / 0,586 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,86 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 16,40 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 26,00%, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m - Aft deck: 43,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m - Average freeboard: 12,19 ft / 3,71 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73,7% Waterplane Area: 8 853 Square feet or 823 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99% Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 384 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,67 - Longitudinal: 2,23 - Overall: 0,76 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

von Echenbach: Kortenaer (БР) аи Нидерланды, laid down 1884. 6 ед, схема батареи СК - с австро-венгерских "Габсбургов". Displacement: 4 409 t light; 4 664 t standard; 4 998 t normal; 5 265 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (295,28 ft / 282,15 ft) x 52,49 ft x (19,69 / 20,55 ft) (90,00 m / 86,00 m) x 16,00 m x (6,00 / 6,26 m) Armament: 4 - 10,24" / 260 mm 30,0 cal guns - 471,53lbs / 213,88kg shells, 100 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1884 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 35,0 cal guns - 47,16lbs / 21,39kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1884 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts 6 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 raised mounts 8 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 35,0 cal guns - 5,05lbs / 2,29kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1884 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 492 lbs / 1 131 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m 19,69 ft / 6,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 72% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 2nd: 3,54" / 90 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 278 ihp / 2 445 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 4 200nm at 8,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 601 tons (100% coal) Complement: 296 - 386 Cost: £0,385 million / $1,539 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 361 tons, 7,2% - Guns: 361 tons, 7,2% Armour: 1 767 tons, 35,4% - Belts: 734 tons, 14,7% - Armament: 345 tons, 6,9% - Armour Deck: 644 tons, 12,9% - Conning Tower: 45 tons, 0,9% Machinery: 644 tons, 12,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 637 tons, 32,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 589 tons, 11,8% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 5 635 lbs / 2 556 Kg = 11,5 x 10,2 " / 260 mm shells or 1,6 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,30 Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 12,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,44 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,41 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,600 / 0,606 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,38 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 16,80 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m, 8,20 ft / 2,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 9,90 ft / 3,02 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 57,2% Waterplane Area: 10 833 Square feet or 1 006 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114% Structure weight / hull surface area: 118 lbs/sq ft or 576 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,94 - Longitudinal: 2,32 - Overall: 1,03 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

von Echenbach: Финской сестре серьги от "бенилюкса": аи Сампо, аи финляндия аи ББО laid down 1933 Displacement: 5 588 t light; 5 933 t standard; 6 001 t normal; 6 056 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (293,26 ft / 285,43 ft) x 59,06 ft x (19,69 / 19,83 ft) (89,39 m / 87,00 m) x 18,00 m x (6,00 / 6,04 m) Armament: 6 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 504,26lbs / 228,73kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1933 Model 3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 1 raised mount aft 8 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model 2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 55,0 cal guns - 2,11lbs / 0,96kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1933 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 3 289 lbs / 1 492 kg Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 132,28 lbs / 60,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,591 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 118,11 ft / 36,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 2,36" / 60 mm 144,36 ft / 44,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 22,97 ft / 7,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 64% of normal length Main Belt inclined 12,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm - 0,47" / 12 mm 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm Forecastle: 1,97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion generators, Electric motors, 2 shafts, 7 606 shp / 5 674 Kw = 16,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 122 tons Complement: 340 - 443 Cost: £2,471 million / $9,884 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 886 tons, 14,8% - Guns: 885 tons, 14,8% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 1 431 tons, 23,8% - Belts: 467 tons, 7,8% - Armament: 207 tons, 3,4% - Armour Deck: 732 tons, 12,2% - Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0,4% Machinery: 222 tons, 3,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 049 tons, 50,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 413 tons, 6,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 906 lbs / 4 493 Kg = 19,8 x 10,0 " / 254 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 14,0 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,76 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,31 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,633 / 0,634 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,83 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 20,25 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 22,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 47,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 12,92 ft / 3,94 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88,6% Waterplane Area: 13 258 Square feet or 1 232 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128% Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 959 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,48 - Longitudinal: 5,67 - Overall: 1,69 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily "зеркальный Родни". Возможно установка 9 (3х3) 254-мм или 6 (3х2) 280 -мм орудий при увеличении водоизмещения на 400-600т.

von Echenbach: М.б. кто из коллег поделится ссылками на работы о разведке-КР Голландии в 19 1 и 2 половина) и 20 первая половина) веках. Европейская зона и Азия. Ещё м.б. интересные обзоры(?) по временам противостояния с Англией.

Dampir: navyworld.narod.ru/Kruisers.htm?clk2398502361292193773143=1 https://topwar.ru/2399-vpolne-samostoyatelnye-karapuzy.html

von Echenbach: Dampir пишет: navyworld.narod.ru/Kruisers + Спасибо! Доведённый "до ума" легкий броненосный крейсер типа "Марко Поло" (Витторе Пизане) в виде аи-Витязя: http://alternathistory.com/bronenosnye-razvedchiki-dlya-russkogo-flota/

von Echenbach: К более поздним временам, начала эпохи "карманных линкоров" :-) Под влиянием немецких проектов (а возможно, сто германцы войдут в сканд.альянс ;-) ): 1. Лютцов-АИ2 2х4 2806х2 105. 2. Гнейзенау-аи2 3х4 ретирадно, 6-8х2 105. ТА на корме. К АИ: в корме отсек-под верхней палубой для катеров и шлюпок. Выдвижные-подъёмные катапульты. По авиации для карманных ЛК: 1 гидро на корме (в отсеке для катеров) или - что полагаю более правильным, вместе с рейдером высылать быстроходный всп.КР-авиаТР ( 7-11 000 т,24-28 уз, 6-8 105, 12-18 ГС. + 4-6 000 т диз. топлива. Защита колоний и помощь демократиям запада...

von Echenbach: Авиация Сканд. Альянса (СкАл-Д): - ? 1. гидро. С намёками на модный универсализм и модульность. 2. автожиры (понятно, что в итоге технический тупик... но в аи и в период 1909-1949 может получиться "красиво" 3. теория ИБ (тяжелые-дальние, по меркам скандинавов, и - могут выполнять задачи пикировщиков, штурмовиков и топ-мачтовых бомбардировщиков). Некоторая специализация неизбежно произойдёт. Насколько возможны взлёт-посадка относительно тяжелых гидро- (лодки и поплавки, 2-6 т) со льда? Применение передвижной сборной катапульты на суше? Как прибрежные стартовые пункты. Ракетные стартовые ускорители для катапультного взлёта? северное сияние скандинавского гения...

GromoBoy: von Echenbach пишет: Насколько возможны взлёт-посадка относительно тяжелых гидро- (лодки и поплавки, 2-6 т) со льда? НЯП, вполне возможно, так делали. Только форма корпуса/поплавков нужна по возможности плоская.

Инженер Сидоров: Кстати, хорошее название бы вышло у этого альянса - SCANDAL (SCANDinavian ALiance). То есть, по-нашенскому, СКАНДАЛ... Эх, устроят же они Советам скандал на балтике - ответить-то особо нечем, промышленность в глубоком тазу...

von Echenbach: Инженер Сидоров пишет: SCANDAL (SCANDinavian ALiance). То есть, по-нашенскому, СКАНДАЛ... Эх, устроят же они Советам скандал на балтике - ответить-то особо нечем Раскрыл идею. Если за "пятилеткой в три года" и прочими лозунгами не гнать и гигантоманией с рекордизмом не болеть - а немного и головой думать... Иначе - как в реале МСБМ будут у Кронштадта мины тралить. Увы. Уув. Сержиовиладжио встретил немного о шведах по "Тре Крунур" и мысль: какие могли быть аи-проекты КР и ББО "совместного" проектирования Шв + Голл + Дан с консультациями-советами от Герм-Англ-Итал?

Инженер Сидоров: von Echenbach пишет: немного и головой думать... А не сдать ли "скандалистам" в аренду/концессию судостроительные мощности Питера? Пусть, станочный парк и морально устарел, изношен, раскомплектован, возможно - вывезен или просто разворован, но, по крайней мере, сами стапельные места Нового Адмиралтейства, Балтийского завода и Путиловской верфи никуда не делись. А заодно и рабочих наших подучат и грамоте, и технологиям.

von Echenbach: У меня немного мода-интерес к трёхорудийным установкам. И СКАНДАЛ сие не миновал: ваши проекты аи - Сверье.. Моё: что-то от Вейнемейен, но: 8000 т, 2х3 280, 4х2 (8х2) 105 и 8х2 40. 21 уз, борт160-40, палуба 20-60.

von Echenbach: Шведская версия "навигатори" в совместной проработке голландцами. 3 (+3 ед. голланд.) "Карскруна" type laid down 1929 Displacement: 1 206 t light; 1 277 t standard; 1 331 t normal; 1 381 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (338,14 ft / 324,80 ft) x 29,53 ft x (10,83 / 11,08 ft) (103,07 m / 99,00 m) x 9,00 m x (3,30 / 3,38 m) Armament: 6 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 170 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model 1 x 2 row quad mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 6 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck centre 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft 4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 408 lbs / 185 kg Main Torpedoes 9 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,319 t each, 11,867 t total In 3 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 97,00 lbs / 44,00 kg Depth Charges + 12 reloads - 0,606 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 0,47" / 12 mm 216,54 ft / 66,00 m 4,92 ft / 1,50 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 103% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,35" / 9 mm - 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,31" / 8 mm - - - Armoured deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 0,47" / 12 mm - Conning towers: Forward 0,47" / 12 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22 869 shp / 17 061 Kw = 31,00 kts Range 1 200nm at 15,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 104 tons Complement: 109 - 143 Cost: £0,581 million / $2,323 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 99 tons, 7,4% - Guns: 75 tons, 5,6% - Weapons: 24 tons, 1,8% Armour: 85 tons, 6,4% - Belts: 20 tons, 1,5% - Armament: 17 tons, 1,3% - Armour Deck: 46 tons, 3,5% - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 594 tons, 44,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 428 tons, 32,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 129 tons, 9,6% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 587 lbs / 266 Kg = 11,1 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25 Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m Roll period: 11,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,450 / 0,455 Length to Beam Ratio: 11,00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 20,54 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 26,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 41,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Average freeboard: 13,09 ft / 3,99 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 159,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,0% Waterplane Area: 6 355 Square feet or 590 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 80% Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 188 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,66 - Longitudinal: 2,22 - Overall: 0,75 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room

von Echenbach: Просто, что бы было... проект лгкр "Стокгольм" 1932, некое "зеркало" "Исе" м "Миоко" ( в вариациях: А- 5х2, с пирамидой в корме\ Миоко альт; Б- 4х2 с двумя возвышенными в корме . Труба и мостик с мачтой разделяют арт. группы\ Исе, носовые 2х2 на одном уровне палубы полубака и разделены рубкой с трубой, В- 3-4х3). М.б. Д до 5000 т. laid down 1932 Displacement: 3 870 t light; 4 098 t standard; 4 298 t normal; 4 457 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (475,95 ft / 456,04 ft) x 45,93 ft x (14,11 / 14,49 ft) (145,07 m / 139,00 m) x 14,00 m x (4,30 / 4,42 m) Armament: 12 - 5,98" / 152 mm 50,0 cal guns - 113,44lbs / 51,45kg shells, 160 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1932 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 2 raised mounts 8 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 250 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft evenly spread 8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 650 per gun Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 485 lbs / 674 kg Main Torpedoes 12 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 1,331 t each, 15,966 t total In 4 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Main DC/AS Mortars 2 - 97,00 lbs / 44,00 kg Depth Charges + 8 reloads - 0,433 t total in Stern depth charge racks Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 1,57" / 40 mm 357,61 ft / 109,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 121% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 2nd: 0,47" / 12 mm 0,24" / 6 mm - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Armoured deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 0,94" / 24 mm Forecastle: 0,00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 0,47" / 12 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,36" / 60 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32 738 shp / 24 422 Kw = 29,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 15,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 359 tons Complement: 265 - 345 Cost: £1,909 million / $7,638 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 491 tons, 11,4% - Guns: 458 tons, 10,7% - Weapons: 32 tons, 0,8% Armour: 608 tons, 14,1% - Belts: 185 tons, 4,3% - Armament: 182 tons, 4,2% - Armour Deck: 228 tons, 5,3% - Conning Tower: 13 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 966 tons, 22,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 805 tons, 42,0% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 427 tons, 9,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 4 853 lbs / 2 201 Kg = 45,3 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03 Metacentric height 1,6 ft / 0,5 m Roll period: 15,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,00 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,06 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,509 / 0,514 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,93 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 24,36 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 22,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 46,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,37 ft / 4,99 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156,0% Waterplane Area: 14 636 Square feet or 1 360 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108% Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 437 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,96 - Longitudinal: 1,71 - Overall: 1,02 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room

von Echenbach: Проект аи- дизельного 150-тонного миноносца Голландии, на основе проектов французских Циклонов и 38-метровых... laid down 1913 Displacement: 157 t light; 161 t standard; 167 t normal; 172 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (146,62 ft / 141,08 ft) x 15,42 ft x (6,56 / 6,69 ft) (44,69 m / 43,00 m) x 4,70 m x (2,00 / 2,04 m) Armament: 3 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft Weight of broadside 10 lbs / 4 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m torpedoes - 0,852 t each, 3,406 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes 2nd Torpedoes 2 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m torpedoes - 0,852 t each, 1,703 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Conning towers: Forward 0,35" / 9 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 3 315 shp / 2 473 Kw = 24,00 kts Range 600nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 12 tons Complement: 23 - 30 Cost: £0,020 million / $0,079 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 11 tons, 6,6% - Guns: 2 tons, 1,3% - Weapons: 9 tons, 5,3% Armour: 0 tons, 0,1% - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,1% Machinery: 87 tons, 51,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 59 tons, 35,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 11 tons, 6,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 69 lbs / 31 Kg = 0,6 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20 Metacentric height 0,4 ft / 0,1 m Roll period: 9,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 43 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,09 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,74 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,410 / 0,414 Length to Beam Ratio: 9,15 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 13,82 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 73 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Forward deck: 26,00%, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m, 9,84 ft / 3,00 m - Aft deck: 39,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 7,55 ft / 2,30 m - Average freeboard: 7,88 ft / 2,40 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170,5% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 50,8% Waterplane Area: 1 398 Square feet or 130 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 63% Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 91 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,61 - Longitudinal: 5,35 - Overall: 0,76 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

von Echenbach: Проект аи- быстроходного дредноута\линейного крейсера для Голландии, Испании, А-В, м.б. Германии (а также и для Китая): laid down 1911, Displacement: 12 778 t light; 13 595 t standard; 14 388 t normal; 15 023 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (579,45 ft / 564,30 ft) x 68,90 ft x (22,97 / 23,75 ft) (176,62 m / 172,00 m) x 21,00 m x (7,00 / 7,24 m) Armament: 9 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 675,51lbs / 306,40kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1911 Model 1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1911 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 6 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 6 350 lbs / 2 880 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,775 t each, 3,098 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 295,28 ft / 90,00 m 8,86 ft / 2,70 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 81% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 11,0" / 280 mm 2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm 0,39" / 10 mm - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,87" / 200 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 45 957 shp / 34 284 Kw = 26,00 kts Range 4 800nm at 12,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 427 tons Complement: 656 - 853 Cost: £1,290 million / $5,159 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 417 tons, 9,8% - Guns: 1 411 tons, 9,8% - Weapons: 6 tons, 0,0% Armour: 3 393 tons, 23,6% - Belts: 1 420 tons, 9,9% - Armament: 1 097 tons, 7,6% - Armour Deck: 775 tons, 5,4% - Conning Tower: 100 tons, 0,7% Machinery: 1 865 tons, 13,0% Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 103 tons, 42,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 610 tons, 11,2% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 17 620 lbs / 7 992 Kg = 26,3 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 3,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05 Metacentric height 3,2 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 16,3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,92 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,06 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,564 / 0,569 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,19 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,61 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 19,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m - Forward deck: 44,00%, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m - Aft deck: 23,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,83 ft / 5,13 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132,6% Waterplane Area: 28 175 Square feet or 2 618 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114% Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 819 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,12 - Longitudinal: 1,65 - Overall: 1,16 Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room

von Echenbach: супер-аи-Сверье - или лёгкий шхерный боевой\линейный крейсер: laid down 1911, Displacement: 7 717 t light; 8 223 t standard; 8 510 t normal; 8 739 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (457,50 ft / 442,91 ft) x 62,34 ft x (19,69 / 20,10 ft) (139,45 m / 135,00 m) x 19,00 m x (6,00 / 6,13 m) Armament: 6 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 675,51lbs / 306,40kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1911 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 35,62lbs / 16,16kg shells, 250 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1911 Model 6 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 raised mounts - superfiring 8 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 5,70lbs / 2,58kg shells, 250 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 4 526 lbs / 2 053 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 269,03 ft / 82,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 1,97" / 50 mm 157,48 ft / 48,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m 16,40 ft / 5,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 93% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 2,95" / 75 mm 7,87" / 200 mm 2nd: 0,98" / 25 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 1,97" / 50 mm - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,38" / 35 mm Forecastle: 0,87" / 22 mm Quarter deck: 1,10" / 28 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 1,97" / 50 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 28 890 shp / 21 552 Kw = 24,00 kts Range 1 600nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 516 tons (60% coal) Complement: 442 - 575 Cost: £0,866 million / $3,464 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 042 tons, 12,2% - Guns: 1 042 tons, 12,2% Armour: 2 086 tons, 24,5% - Belts: 849 tons, 10,0% - Armament: 683 tons, 8,0% - Armour Deck: 473 tons, 5,6% - Conning Towers: 81 tons, 1,0% Machinery: 1 240 tons, 14,6% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 349 tons, 39,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 793 tons, 9,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 131 lbs / 4 142 Kg = 13,6 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 1,6 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04 Metacentric height 2,6 ft / 0,8 m Roll period: 16,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,01 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,05 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,548 / 0,551 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,11 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,05 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 48,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 21,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 14,44 ft / 4,40 m - Average freeboard: 15,99 ft / 4,87 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123,5% Waterplane Area: 19 232 Square feet or 1 787 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99% Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 671 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,94 - Longitudinal: 1,97 - Overall: 1,01 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room

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