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Средиземноморский букет. Новый флот Франции, Италии, Турции и др.
von Echenbach: Шасселу-Лобе, Жустин. РИ - морской министр Франции 1860-1867. Строился броненосный флот. Допустим: имел дар предвидения и мог быть убедительным и влиятельным. - по факту РИ. Как мог изменить флот и повлиять на армию, императора Наполеона III и судьбу-историю Франции и Европы? Какие могли быть новые проекты кораблей?
Ответов - 27, стр:
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von Echenbach: Mukhin пишет: расположить диагонально, и стрелять в оба борта :-) Ремонт дома и родственники на даче в гостях - хобби урывками. Думается по теме.
von Echenbach: Dampir пишет: кормовую башню как на Касуге спаренную и верхний вес уменьшится Ну и носовую нормально подмять Погонный огонь-наше все Для итальянцев ближе-роднее ретирадное. Набеговые операции и крейсера. Если с Альт "Сан-Бон" начать, - хм, 4х2 10", ближе гекс с 6х1 10" - ??? То двухорудийные башни вполне вмещаются в линию развития. Но "одноорудийное" развитие по Куниберти может исчезнуть.
von Echenbach: альтсупер Амальфи, альт итальянской развитие линии "Режина Елена" альт бркр-лнкр laid down 1908. 3х2 12", 12 120-мм, 28 уз. 120-мм (б проект 180-мм) борт, палуба 40-120 мм. Displacement: 12 270 t light; 13 048 t standard; 14 059 t normal; 14 867 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (554,79 ft / 538,06 ft) x 65,62 ft x (26,25 / 27,39 ft) (169,10 m / 164,00 m) x 20,00 m x (8,00 / 8,35 m) Armament: 6 - 12,01" / 305 mm 45,0 cal guns - 873,08lbs / 396,02kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1908 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 6 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,51lbs / 6,13kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 5 964 lbs / 2 705 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,763 t each, 3,050 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 387,14 ft / 118,00 m 8,53 ft / 2,60 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 111% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm 3,54" / 90 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - - 3rd: 0,24" / 6 mm - - - Protected deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 4,72" / 120 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 2,76" / 70 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 7,09" / 180 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 60 488 shp / 45 124 Kw = 28,00 kts Range 2 800nm at 16,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 818 tons Complement: 645 - 839 Cost: £1,381 million / $5,524 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 277 tons, 9,1% - Guns: 1 271 tons, 9,0% - Weapons: 6 tons, 0,0% Armour: 3 534 tons, 25,1% - Belts: 644 tons, 4,6% - Armament: 770 tons, 5,5% - Armour Deck: 1 986 tons, 14,1% - Conning Towers: 133 tons, 0,9% Machinery: 3 055 tons, 21,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 405 tons, 31,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 788 tons, 12,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 11 824 lbs / 5 363 Kg = 13,7 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,7 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05 Metacentric height 2,9 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 16,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,22 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,17 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, an extended bulbous bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,531 / 0,538 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,20 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25,06 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 40,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Aft deck: 27,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 20,93 ft / 6,38 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147,3% Waterplane Area: 24 796 Square feet or 2 304 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96% Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 613 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,83 - Longitudinal: 1,99 - Overall: 0,90 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room P.S.: А если таких "Пересветов" ( с поправкой ТТЭ на время, т.е. скорость до 21 уз)...
von Echenbach: Франция, 1878-1882 идея бронетаранов : минный бронетаран-ббо. альт бронетаран кр Леклерк, альт франця альт бронетаран кр бо laid down 1880 Barbette ship Displacement: 4 914 t light; 5 071 t standard; 5 277 t normal; 5 442 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (301,84 ft / 282,15 ft) x 45,93 ft x (19,69 / 20,21 ft) (92,00 m / 86,00 m) x 14,00 m x (6,00 / 6,16 m) Armament: 2 - 9,45" / 240 mm 30,0 cal guns - 358,44lbs / 162,58kg shells, 60 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mount, 1880 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 12 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 30,0 cal guns - 25,93lbs / 11,76kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1880 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 35,0 cal guns - 2,74lbs / 1,24kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1880 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 1 050 lbs / 476 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,197 t each, 0,787 t total submerged bow tubes 2nd Torpedoes 16 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,197 t each, 3,148 t total submerged side tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 143% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces Main Belt inclined 17,00 degrees (positive = in) - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) 2nd: 4,72" / 120 mm - 7,09" / 180 mm 3rd: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,18" / 30 mm - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 4,72" / 120 mm Forecastle: 3,15" / 80 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12 383 ihp / 9 238 Kw = 19,00 kts Range 900nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 371 tons (100% coal) Complement: 309 - 402 Cost: £0,573 million / $2,290 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 177 tons, 3,4% - Guns: 169 tons, 3,2% - Weapons: 8 tons, 0,1% Armour: 1 509 tons, 28,6% - Belts: 391 tons, 7,4% - Armament: 243 tons, 4,6% - Armour Deck: 875 tons, 16,6% Machinery: 2 559 tons, 48,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 629 tons, 11,9% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 363 tons, 6,9% Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 0,8% - Hull below water: 40 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 906 lbs / 411 Kg = 9,9 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,84 Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m Roll period: 9,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,09 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a ram bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,724 / 0,727 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,14 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18,20 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Average freeboard: 12,19 ft / 3,72 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88,1% Waterplane Area: 10 896 Square feet or 1 012 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 75% Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 223 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,47 - Longitudinal: 1,22 - Overall: 0,52 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Главный пояс наклонен наружу сверху, верхний каземат - по типу американских броненосцев Южан, в носу барбет с двумя орудиями ГК. ТА спаренные вертикально подводные. На следующей серии,также из трех кораблей ГК стал ромбическим, из 4х1 180-м,скорость - до 21 уз.
von Echenbach: По французским бронетаранам 1870-х: Броне-тральщики-прорыватели защиты входа в гавань, бронепричалы-десантные бронетранспорты и србственно бронетараны для огневой поддержки десанта. Всё это для обеспечения Ла-Маншской (Ламанческой) десантной лперации. В т.ч. сковывание и отвлечение на себя (на десантные бронетараны) действий линейных сил Флота Канала.
von Echenbach: По итальянским дредноутам типа "Кавур" - чуть увеличить и сделать 5х3 (почти ри) или 6х3 12" (Исеизированный вариант)?
von Echenbach: аи броненосный-линейный крейсер Франции по исходным идеям Д. Фишера и мотивам Лнкр "Гёбен" и бркр "Клебер". аи-Леон Гамбетта: laid down 1904, Displacement: 12 678 t light; 13 402 t standard; 13 985 t normal; 14 450 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (505,19 ft / 492,13 ft) x 68,90 ft x (26,25 / 26,94 ft) (153,98 m / 150,00 m) x 21,00 m x (8,00 / 8,21 m) Armament: 10 - 9,45" / 240 mm 43,0 cal guns - 412,02lbs / 186,89kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model 3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft 1 raised mount aft - superfiring 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 12 - 6,46" / 164 mm 45,0 cal guns - 135,73lbs / 61,57kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 12 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 29,24lbs / 13,26kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 2,56" / 65,0 mm 43,0 cal guns - 8,19lbs / 3,71kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 6 165 lbs / 2 797 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,496 t each, 0,991 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 7,01" / 178 mm 364,17 ft / 111,00 m 8,53 ft / 2,60 m Ends: 2,52" / 64 mm 118,11 ft / 36,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 5,43" / 138 mm 393,70 ft / 120,00 m 4,59 ft / 1,40 m Main Belt covers 114% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,01" / 178 mm 4,33" / 110 mm 7,01" / 178 mm 2nd: 6,46" / 164 mm 2,60" / 66 mm 6,46" / 164 mm 3rd: 0,87" / 22 mm 0,43" / 11 mm - 4th: 0,20" / 5 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,18" / 30 mm Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,01" / 178 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 34 547 shp / 25 772 Kw = 23,50 kts Range 2 400nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1 048 tons (66% coal) Complement: 642 - 835 Cost: £1,452 million / $5,807 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 627 tons, 11,6% - Guns: 1 626 tons, 11,6% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 3 610 tons, 25,8% - Belts: 1 454 tons, 10,4% - Armament: 1 575 tons, 11,3% - Armour Deck: 493 tons, 3,5% - Conning Tower: 88 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 3 341 tons, 23,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 100 tons, 29,3% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 307 tons, 9,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 10 551 lbs / 4 786 Kg = 25,0 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 3,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07 Metacentric height 3,2 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 16,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,89 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,19 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,550 / 0,554 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,14 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 22,18 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 50,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 18,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 18,06 ft / 5,50 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125,8% Waterplane Area: 23 663 Square feet or 2 198 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91% Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 678 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,94 - Longitudinal: 1,77 - Overall: 1,00 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room СК на уровне кормовой башни ГК в вырезах (Клебер). Сектор работы средних башен макс. - 90+180 град.
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