Броненосные крейсера империи

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Броненосные крейсера империи

von Echenbach: Россия развивает тип мореходного броненосного корабля. АИ Минин, Ри башенный броненоец laid down 1866 Barbette ship 4х2 11" (м.б. 9") в башнях в оконечностях. 4х2 в барбетах 9" (а - по два барбета побортно, б - барбеты ромбом, все возвышенно над башнями ГК, на надстройке. В надстройке батарея малого/среднего калибра /152-120-107/ [more] Displacement: 5 311 t light; 5 626 t standard; 5 872 t normal; 6 069 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (308,40 ft / 298,56 ft) x 55,77 ft x (19,69 / 20,24 ft) (94,00 m / 91,00 m) x 17,00 m x (6,00 / 6,17 m) Armament: 4 - 11,02" / 280 mm 25,0 cal guns - 486,70lbs / 220,76kg shells, 70 per gun Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1866 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 8 - 9,02" / 229 mm 25,0 cal guns - 266,25lbs / 120,77kg shells, 80 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1866 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 12 - 4,21" / 107 mm 25,0 cal guns - 27,16lbs / 12,32kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1866 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 6 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft Weight of broadside 4 403 lbs / 1 997 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 14,2" / 360 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,038 t each, 0,152 t total submerged bow & stern tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 183,73 ft / 56,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 147,64 ft / 45,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Upper: 7,09" / 180 mm 183,73 ft / 56,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 95% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 5,91" / 150 mm 2nd: 7,09" / 180 mm - 3,94" / 100 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4 211 ihp / 3 142 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 7,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 444 tons (100% coal) Complement: 335 - 436 Cost: £0,532 million / $2,127 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 589 tons, 10,0% - Guns: 589 tons, 10,0% - Weapons: 0 tons, 0,0% Armour: 2 234 tons, 38,0% - Belts: 1 126 tons, 19,2% - Armament: 535 tons, 9,1% - Armour Deck: 522 tons, 8,9% - Conning Tower: 50 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 1 132 tons, 19,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 356 tons, 23,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 562 tons, 9,6% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2 257 lbs / 1 024 Kg = 5,3 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 35,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31 Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 12,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,83 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,627 / 0,630 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,35 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 17,28 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93,2% Waterplane Area: 12 489 Square feet or 1 160 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93% Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 462 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,49 - Longitudinal: 1,59 - Overall: 0,55 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather[/more] и АИ Пожарский, Ри броненосный фрегат laid down 1865 Barbette ship Displacement: 4 695 t light; 4 945 t standard; 5 183 t normal; 5 373 t full load [more] Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (308,40 ft / 298,56 ft) x 52,49 ft x (19,69 / 20,27 ft) (94,00 m / 91,00 m) x 16,00 m x (6,00 / 6,18 m) Armament: 4 - 9,02" / 229 mm 25,0 cal guns - 263,11lbs / 119,35kg shells, 80 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1865 Model 2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 - 9,02" / 229 mm 25,0 cal guns - 263,11lbs / 119,35kg shells, 70 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1865 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft 2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 5,98" / 152 mm 25,0 cal guns - 76,94lbs / 34,90kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1865 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 4,21" / 107 mm 25,0 cal guns - 26,84lbs / 12,17kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1865 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 2 935 lbs / 1 331 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 14,2" / 360 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,032 t each, 0,128 t total submerged bow & stern tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 170,60 ft / 52,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 127,95 ft / 39,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Upper: 5,91" / 150 mm 177,17 ft / 54,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 88% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 2,01" / 51 mm - 7,09" / 180 mm 2nd: 7,09" / 180 mm - 2,01" / 51 mm 3rd: 7,09" / 180 mm - 2,01" / 51 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 1,85" / 47 mm Forecastle: 1,46" / 37 mm Quarter deck: 1,46" / 37 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 2,01" / 51 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 870 ihp / 2 887 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 7,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 428 tons (100% coal) Complement: 305 - 397 Cost: £0,401 million / $1,605 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 311 tons, 6,0% - Guns: 311 tons, 6,0% - Weapons: 0 tons, 0,0% Armour: 2 186 tons, 42,2% - Belts: 1 155 tons, 22,3% - Armament: 597 tons, 11,5% - Armour Deck: 376 tons, 7,2% - Conning Towers: 59 tons, 1,1% Machinery: 1 067 tons, 20,6% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 130 tons, 21,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 488 tons, 9,4% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2 618 lbs / 1 187 Kg = 11,4 x 9,0 " / 229 mm shells or 46,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,37 Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 12,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,89 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck , a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,588 / 0,592 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,69 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 17,28 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Average freeboard: 16,81 ft / 5,13 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,3% Waterplane Area: 11 334 Square feet or 1 053 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101% Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 360 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,46 - Longitudinal: 1,88 - Overall: 0,53 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather[/more]

Ответов - 33, стр: 1 2 All

von Echenbach: В качестве дополнения: эскадренный бронетаран, Ри аи таран laid down 1866 Barbette ship. Носовая палуба имеет наклон к тарану. В носу броневой пояс утолщён. Носовое орудие в броневом каземате, кормовое в барбете. Displacement: 1 116 t light; 1 157 t standard; 1 199 t normal; 1 233 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (183,73 ft / 170,60 ft) x 29,53 ft x (13,12 / 13,44 ft) (56,00 m / 52,00 m) x 9,00 m x (4,00 / 4,10 m) Armament: 1 - 9,06" / 230 mm 24,0 cal gun - 269,02lbs / 122,03kg shells, 50 per gun Breech loading gun in casemate mount, 1866 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in all but light seas 1 - 9,06" / 230 mm 24,0 cal gun - 269,02lbs / 122,03kg shells, 40 per gun Breech loading gun in open barbette mount, 1866 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft 6 - 3,43" / 87,0 mm 25,0 cal guns - 14,60lbs / 6,62kg shells, 80 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1866 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in any sea 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in any sea Weight of broadside 626 lbs / 284 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 13,8" / 350 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,062 t each, 0,249 t total submerged bow tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: 9,45" / 240 mm 39,37 ft / 12,00 m 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Main Belt covers 118% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,87" / 200 mm - - 2nd: 7,09" / 180 mm - 4,72" / 120 mm 3rd: 5,51" / 140 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm Forecastle: 4,72" / 120 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1 410 ihp / 1 052 Kw = 13,00 kts Range 800nm at 7,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 77 tons (100% coal) Complement: 101 - 132 Cost: £0,103 million / $0,413 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 68 tons, 5,6% - Guns: 67 tons, 5,6% - Weapons: 0 tons, 0,0% Armour: 528 tons, 44,0% - Belts: 306 tons, 25,5% - Armament: 92 tons, 7,7% - Armour Deck: 129 tons, 10,7% Machinery: 326 tons, 27,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 194 tons, 16,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 84 tons, 7,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 422 lbs / 191 Kg = 1,8 x 9,1 " / 230 mm shells or 8,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,63 Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m Roll period: 9,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,44 Hull form characteristics: Hull has low forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,635 / 0,638 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,78 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 13,06 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 3,28 ft / 1,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m, 6,56 ft / 2,00 m - Average freeboard: 8,27 ft / 2,52 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 68,8% Waterplane Area: 3 806 Square feet or 354 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 82% Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 192 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,47 - Longitudinal: 1,50 - Overall: 0,53 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

von Echenbach: Ещё один проект. Броненосный легкий крейсер. По машинам-турбинам - для 1 мв, но по архитектуре м.б. полезен и к русско-японской войне: 6500 т, 21/28 уз, 3х2 120 мм линейно, кормовая с 1х2 203 мм - снижена относительно 120мм башенно-подобных спаренных установок. борт - 96-32, арт - 102-32, рубка - 96, палуба - 32-68. АИ Боярин, РИ лг-тж кр laid down 1910 Displacement: 5 992 t light; 6 205 t standard; 6 509 t normal; 6 752 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (444,38 ft / 433,07 ft) x 49,21 ft x (19,69 / 20,24 ft) (135,45 m / 132,00 m) x 15,00 m x (6,00 / 6,17 m) Armament: 2 - 7,95" / 202 mm 45,0 cal guns - 253,64lbs / 115,05kg shells, 120 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mount, 1910 Model 1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck aft 6 - 5,12" / 130 mm 55,0 cal guns - 72,36lbs / 32,82kg shells, 190 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1910 Model 1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck aft 1 raised mount - superfiring 2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 4 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 40,0 cal guns - 12,34lbs / 5,60kg shells, 150 per gun Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1910 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 991 lbs / 449 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 0,909 t each, 3,635 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 2,52" / 64 mm 246,06 ft / 75,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,26" / 32 mm 150,92 ft / 46,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 36,09 ft / 11,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 87% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 4,02" / 102 mm 1,26" / 32 mm 2,52" / 64 mm 2nd: 2,52" / 64 mm 0,71" / 18 mm 1,26" / 32 mm - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,68" / 68 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,89" / 48 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,78" / 96 mm, Aft 1,26" / 32 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 38 199 shp / 28 496 Kw = 28,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 14,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 546 tons Complement: 362 - 471 Cost: £0,482 million / $1,928 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 163 tons, 2,5% - Guns: 156 tons, 2,4% - Weapons: 7 tons, 0,1% Armour: 1 114 tons, 17,1% - Belts: 331 tons, 5,1% - Armament: 36 tons, 0,5% - Armour Deck: 710 tons, 10,9% - Conning Towers: 38 tons, 0,6% Machinery: 1 578 tons, 24,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 136 tons, 48,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 517 tons, 7,9% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 7 898 lbs / 3 582 Kg = 31,4 x 8,0 " / 202 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,26 Metacentric height 2,6 ft / 0,8 m Roll period: 12,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 42 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,72 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,543 / 0,548 Length to Beam Ratio: 8,80 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 23,87 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 15,16 ft / 4,62 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103,8% Waterplane Area: 15 381 Square feet or 1 429 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137% Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 647 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,73 - Longitudinal: 2,62 - Overall: 1,80 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Пан директор: Я бы рассмотрел СуперДонской. Если оригинальному Донскому удлинить корпус до нормального водоизмещения 8000 тонн то водоизмещения хватит на нормальное бронирование и усиленную артиллерию. Получится эдакий протоРюрик, но поменьше и с двумя, а не 4-мя паровыми машинами. Можно уменьшить высоту борта до уровня Нахимова, но ввести второй броневой пояс

von Echenbach: Пан директор пишет: Если оригинальному Донскому удлинить корпус до нормального водоизмещения 8000 тонн то водоизмещения хватит на нормальное бронирование и усиленную артиллерию. Скорее будут строить на те же деньги что-то вроде Сисоя или Ростислава. Т.е. "усушенный" броненосец (эпатажный БР)? Как потомок крейсеров "Дм. Донской" и "Память Азова" можно что-то в 6000 т, но не "БаянЪ", не "богини" (которые не в строю эскадры весьма неплохи, и не "богатыри"...

Инженер Сидоров: А я бы предложил развитие линейки типа "Адмирал Нахимов". Вот например, такое: Адмирал Лазарев, Россия Броненосный крейсер laid down 1890 Displacement: 8 705 t light; 9 155 t standard; 9 500 t normal; 9 776 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (380,58 ft / 360,89 ft) x 65,62 ft x (26,25 / 26,84 ft) (116,00 m / 110,00 m) x 20,00 m x (8,00 / 8,18 m) Armament: 8 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 100 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1890 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft Aft Main mounts separated by engine room 8 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 200 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1890 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 14 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 13,63lbs / 6,18kg shells, 350 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1890 Model 14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 14 raised mounts 10 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,35lbs / 1,52kg shells, 700 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1890 Model 10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 10 raised mounts Weight of broadside 3 148 lbs / 1 428 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 5,98" / 152 mm 262,47 ft / 80,00 m 11,48 ft / 3,50 m Ends: Unarmoured Upper: 2,95" / 75 mm 229,66 ft / 70,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 112% of normal length - Torpedo Bulkhead: 0,32" / 8 mm 1,06 ft / 0,32 m 3,48 ft / 1,06 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,99" / 203 mm 5,98" / 152 mm 10,0" / 254 mm 2nd: 2,95" / 75 mm - - 3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - - - Protected deck - multiple decks: 2,95" / 75 mm For and Aft decks Forecastle: 1,46" / 37 mm Quarter deck: 1,46" / 37 mm - Conning towers: Forward 9,84" / 250 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 13 475 ihp / 10 052 Kw = 19,00 kts Range 2 000nm at 10,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 621 tons (100% coal) Complement: 480 - 625 Cost: £0,901 million / $3,603 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 773 tons, 8,1% Armour: 2 758 tons, 29,0% - Belts: 978 tons, 10,3% - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0% - Armament: 853 tons, 9,0% - Armour Deck: 831 tons, 8,8% - Conning Tower: 95 tons, 1,0% Machinery: 2 495 tons, 26,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 678 tons, 28,2% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 795 tons, 8,4% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 8 228 lbs / 3 732 Kg = 32,2 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,36 Metacentric height 4,5 ft / 1,4 m Roll period: 12,9 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,67 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,535 / 0,538 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,50 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,00 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 35,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 10,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m - Average freeboard: 17,80 ft / 5,43 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106,1% Waterplane Area: 16 296 Square feet or 1 514 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94% Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 596 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,88 - Longitudinal: 3,06 - Overall: 1,00 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

von Echenbach: ДЛя небольших, "экономных" крейсеров совмещение 8 и 6 дм. калибров м.б. не желательно, т.е. либо 100-120 и 203 или только 152 мм. Если брать архитектуру размещения ГК (Имперьюз-франки-адм. Нахимов-Бруклин-Фульгия) то представляется возможным ставить подобно как от 100 до 203 мм арт.установки, в т.ч. спаренные. Хотя при спаренных установках и от 203 мм появляется неявная тенденция линейному их размещению (+-, Бранденбург как маяк идеи).

Инженер Сидоров: Хотя линейка "Нахимова" и "Нахимоидов" с моей точки зрения к "экономным" никаким образом не относится (к ним бы я отнес скорее небронированную мелочь типа "Камушков", "Алмаза" или "Светки-первой" - там 8-дм калибру делать нечего вообще, 120-мм их теормаксимум), но с нежелательностью совмещения относительно близких калибров соглашусь, тем более, что в наличии имеется довольно неплохая на тот момент скорострельная 120-мм пушка системы все того же Гюстава Канэ. Вот ее и поставим вместо 6-дюймовок. А вообще, в России в течение ряда лет существовала собственная линейка калибров флотских (и не только) орудий: 11" - 9" - 6" - 4,2" (107-мм) - 3,42" (87-мм). И причины отхода от нее мне неясны. Ну да, заказ орудий у иностранных поставщиков имел место быть, но тем не менее, в свое время это не помешало заказать тому же Шнайдеру 107-мм (чисто русский калибр) пушку, впоследствии известную, как обр. 10/30 (в войсках калибр 107-мм сохранялся аж до 1941 года параллельно с новым 122-мм). При возвращении на эту линейку, вооружение "Нахимоида" могло бы выглядеть, как 4х2 (ромб) - 229/35 (или даже их развитие до 229/45 по аналогии с 254/45 - смогли ведь слепить на ОСЗ такую пушечку, в общем-то неплохую) - 2 башни в оконечностях, 2 - в средней части + 8-10х1 - 107/45 казематные в нос и корму от центральной башни + 14-16 - 87/45 ПМК в батарейной палубе.

von Echenbach: Инженер Сидоров пишет: вооружение "Нахимоида" могло бы выглядеть, как 4х2 (ромб) - 229/35 (или Неплохо. Но что-то мне не даёт покоя тень "Шанзи", если его как-то либо переделать для нужд РИФ, не трогая Клеберов-Баянов... Или для Австрийцев?

von Echenbach: В МТК поступило предложение рассмотреть программу развития флота и особенно, линейки броненосных крейсеров от ВКАМ с "типовым проектом": 1. Для облегчения установок артиллерии главного калибра применять высокие барбеты, размещающиеся в пространстве под верхней палубой, 2. прикрытые снизу 20 мм и сверху наклонными листами 40-80 мм брони, 3. бронирование бортовых секторов барбетов (по 120 град) более толстой бронёй, 4. углы вертикального наведения от -3 до +33. Малые, средние и большие крейсера (с 4,7-6-8" , 8-10" и 10-12" ГК), расположение: ромб с дополнительной кормовой 5-й установкой по диаметральной линии, т.е. в бортовом залпе 4 установки. Возможны вариации...

GromoBoy: von Echenbach пишет: 4. углы вертикального наведения от -3 до +33. Почему именно +33? von Echenbach пишет: ромб с дополнительной кормовой 5-й установкой по диаметральной линии, т.е. в бортовом залпе 4 установки. "Дредноут"! "Дредноут"!

von Echenbach: GromoBoy пишет: Почему именно +33? 33 оборота. А по сути - просто с потолка. М.б. дальнобойность обеспечить и модернизационный потенциал. ""дредноут"..." - действительно. Хм..., м.б. сам "Дредноут" и был настоящим линейным крейсером (относительно броненосцев-полудредноутов), а "Инфлексиблы" можно считать океанскими защитниками торговли/БРКР. Англичане сами не поняли, что получили. И "ошибочно" классифицировали как в реальной истории.

GromoBoy: von Echenbach пишет: ""дредноут"..." - действительно. Хм..., м.б. сам "Дредноут" и был настоящим линейным крейсером (относительно броненосцев-полудредноутов), а "Инфлексиблы" можно считать океанскими защитниками торговли/БРКР. Англичане сами не поняли, что получили. И "ошибочно" классифицировали как в реальной истории. Я имел ввиду расположение артиллерии.

von Echenbach: GromoBoy пишет: расположение артиллерии. Относительно реальности - да, пример традиционной архитектуры, хотя немцы долго держались за гексагональное расположение ГК с мотивацией малой видимости, скорострельности (калибр) и возможности быстрой смены стреляющего борта. Практически нигде и никогда это для ЛК не понадобилось. При несколько ином подходе к классификации, "дредноутная архитектура" м.б. более удобна именно для крейсеров (Инфлексиблы с их деформированными ромбами эшелонированым расположенем башен ГК).

von Echenbach: В качестве продолжения: от ув. Андрея Толстого, http://alternathistory.com/my-nash-my-novyi-flot-postroim-chast-xxiv-oleg-bayanovich-bogatyrev Развитие проекта Рюрик-Баян-Богатырь с идеями Нахимова-Фюльгии - росб ГК. На мой взгляд, один из лучших проектов Аи последнего времени. Как и АИ Дюпле. P.S.: Несомненно, каждый альтернативный конструктор или нач. МТК/исп. должности мор. министра и пр :-), что-либо изменил бы. Немного расширить расстояние между 3-4 или 2-3 трубами для лучшего удобства расположения погребов средних башен ГК с вероятным обрамлением их отсеками котельной воды с дистиляторными установками в качестве отсеков термоизоляции (термос). И для дальнейшего, если кому пригодится: с цусимы (http://tsushima.su/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10154&p=3), рассматривался проект "советского карманника". Были ссылки на "Проект 9" (19?) 1929-31 г. о постройке кр с 4х2 180 в башнях от 8"/50 с кораблей царского флота.

von Echenbach: Ещё раз о броненосцах типа "Имп. Александр II" - в аи бр-кр океанского типа. Башня/барбет - в корме. Второй ГК: башни/барбеты с двумя 8-9 дм орудиями : нос, по миделю. Ещё 4 8 (9) дм в казематах перед и за бортовой установкой 8". Собственно батарейной палубы с батареей нет. Для ЧМ - тип Автократор (3х2 12", 8-12 6", две башни ГК в носу), для БМ - тип Наварин - зеркальный, ближе к Бранденбургу м.б., а Николай - тяжелый /линейный броненосец-рейдер/крейсер.

GromoBoy: von Echenbach пишет: Башня/барбет - в корме. Второй ГК: башни/барбеты с двумя 8-9 дм орудиями : нос, по миделю. Ещё 4 8 (9) дм в казематах перед и за бортовой установкой 8" А зачем они такие?

von Echenbach: GromoBoy пишет: А зачем они такие? А зачем "Пересветы" строили? Должна быть серийная "ошибка" после флота "образцов". Да и была ли ошибка? Применяли не вполне по обстоятельствам, в ситуациях изначально отличавшихся от планировавшихся методов применения. Николай объединяем с Нахимовым и м.б. развить тип среднего-большого Броненосного крейсера, предтечи линейного. 6 ед: (Николай, Александр, Нахимов, Ослябя*, Пересвет* и Победа*. Хотя последнюю серию - * - можно перевести в "условно линейные". Для варианта "прото"- линейного крейсера можно предложить проект "Автократор" (3х2 12", тема "идеальный броненосец") - с уменьшением ГК до 4 (2х2) и высвободившееся место/массу запустить на: 1. Скорость - тяжелые /большие эскадренные разведчики, 2. Броню - эскадренный боевой/линейный крейсер и 3. Повышение автономности - океанские тяжелые рейдеры. АИ система концернов-корпораций в условиях развития гос.капитализма. (прорабатывается :-) ).

von Echenbach: "Улучшенный" проект аи-Пересвет: 2 (1х2) - 12", 10 (5х2) - 8", 12 )12х1) - 4", 8х1 47-мм. Длинный полубак с возможностью кормовой паре 8" башен палить возвышенно, с захватом сектора др 60 град противоположного борта. Шарпий: аи Пересвет-имп Николай таран, аи РИ м.б. Китай аи КР-БР рейдер laid down 1896, не совсем по анонсу - не отражен полубак. Barbette ship Displacement: 10 337 t light; 10 849 t standard; 11 985 t normal; 12 895 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (469,16 ft / 459,32 ft) x 75,46 ft x (22,97 / 24,31 ft) (143,00 m / 140,00 m) x 23,00 m x (7,00 / 7,41 m) Armament: 2 - 12,01" / 305 mm 40,0 cal guns - 1 000,02lbs / 453,60kg shells, 60 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mount, 1896 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 8 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1896 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 12 - 4,02" / 102 mm 40,0 cal guns - 31,03lbs / 14,08kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 4 972 lbs / 2 255 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 15,0" / 381 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,299 t each, 0,598 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 9,06" / 230 mm 318,24 ft / 97,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 3,15" / 80 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 4,72" / 120 mm 318,24 ft / 97,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 107% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm - 10,2" / 260 mm 2nd: 7,09" / 180 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 7,87" / 200 mm 3rd: 7,09" / 180 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 7,87" / 200 mm 4th: 1,26" / 32 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 1,65" / 42 mm Quarter deck: 2,01" / 51 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 3,15" / 80 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17 389 ihp / 12 972 Kw = 20,00 kts Range 3 800nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 2 046 tons (100% coal) Complement: 572 - 744 Cost: £1,123 million / $4,491 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1 100 tons, 9,2% - Guns: 1 098 tons, 9,2% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 4 097 tons, 34,2% - Belts: 1 846 tons, 15,4% - Armament: 1 071 tons, 8,9% - Armour Deck: 1 064 tons, 8,9% - Conning Towers: 115 tons, 1,0% Machinery: 2 898 tons, 24,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 243 tons, 18,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 648 tons, 13,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 7 476 lbs / 3 391 Kg = 8,6 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 6,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,38 Metacentric height 5,7 ft / 1,7 m Roll period: 13,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,79 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,527 / 0,536 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,09 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,19 ft / 5,24 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128,5% Waterplane Area: 23 675 Square feet or 2 199 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90% Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 422 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,57 - Longitudinal: 1,23 - Overall: 0,62 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

von Echenbach: Попробуем и так; Легкий броненосный крейсер (скорее легко-тяжелый): 1. аи Аскольд, аи РИ ЛгБрКР laid down 1901 Displacement: 6 773 t light; 7 074 t standard; 7 548 t normal; 7 926 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (412,36 ft / 403,54 ft) x 52,49 ft x (22,97 / 23,87 ft) (125,69 m / 123,00 m) x 16,00 m x (7,00 / 7,28 m) Armament: 2 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft 2 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 16 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 180 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward Weight of broadside 1 880 lbs / 853 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,601 t each, 1,202 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 65,62 ft / 20,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 125% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 7,09" / 180 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 3rd: 1,18" / 30 mm - 1,18" / 30 mm - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,26" / 32 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,26" / 32 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 16 126 ihp / 12 030 Kw = 21,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 852 tons (100% coal) Complement: 404 - 526 Cost: £0,722 million / $2,886 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 439 tons, 5,8% - Guns: 437 tons, 5,8% - Weapons: 2 tons, 0,0% Armour: 1 535 tons, 20,3% - Belts: 566 tons, 7,5% - Armament: 283 tons, 3,7% - Armour Deck: 636 tons, 8,4% - Conning Towers: 50 tons, 0,7% Machinery: 2 481 tons, 32,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 318 tons, 30,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 775 tons, 10,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 5 235 lbs / 2 375 Kg = 20,5 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24 Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 13,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 87 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,62 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,74 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,543 / 0,549 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,69 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 20,09 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 41,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,66 ft / 5,38 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123,9% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113,2% Waterplane Area: 14 687 Square feet or 1 364 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97% Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 503 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,04 - Longitudinal: 2,66 - Overall: 1,15 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather 2. с 3х2 203 (2з2 в носу (линейно), ака "Автократор", 1х2 - кормовая. 8-12 100-120-мм. аи Аскольд, аи РИ ЛгБрКР laid down 1901 Displacement: 6 794 t light; 7 074 t standard; 7 548 t normal; 7 926 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (412,36 ft / 403,54 ft) x 52,49 ft x (22,97 / 23,87 ft) (125,69 m / 123,00 m) x 16,00 m x (7,00 / 7,28 m) Armament: 6 - 7,99" / 203 mm 45,0 cal guns - 257,42lbs / 116,76kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1901 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 10 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1901 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread 6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas Weight of broadside 2 076 lbs / 942 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m torpedoes - 0,601 t each, 1,202 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 328,08 ft / 100,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 65,62 ft / 20,00 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 125% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm 0,59" / 15 mm - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,26" / 32 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,26" / 32 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 16 126 ihp / 12 030 Kw = 21,00 kts Range 2 200nm at 13,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 852 tons (100% coal) Complement: 404 - 526 Cost: £0,755 million / $3,022 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 516 tons, 6,8% - Guns: 515 tons, 6,8% - Weapons: 2 tons, 0,0% Armour: 1 558 tons, 20,6% - Belts: 566 tons, 7,5% - Armament: 306 tons, 4,1% - Armour Deck: 636 tons, 8,4% - Conning Towers: 50 tons, 0,7% Machinery: 2 481 tons, 32,9% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 239 tons, 29,7% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 754 tons, 10,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 4 891 lbs / 2 219 Kg = 19,2 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20 Metacentric height 2,7 ft / 0,8 m Roll period: 13,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 86 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,75 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,72 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,543 / 0,549 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,69 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 20,09 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21,00 degrees Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 41,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,66 ft / 5,38 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 127,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113,2% Waterplane Area: 14 687 Square feet or 1 364 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93% Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 495 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,00 - Longitudinal: 2,57 - Overall: 1,09 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

von Echenbach: Появилась идея: немного из ранних проектов, МИМФ и проекта ув. Драгон.нур (Dragon.nur aka Dr5r - https://altflotofag.forum24.ru/?1-0-0-00000038-000-20-0-1553054748 №30) и фото "Память Азова" :-) аи Память Азова -7, аи РИ аи БРКР laid down 1892 Barbette ship Central citadel ship Displacement: 5 287 t light; 5 558 t standard; 6 014 t normal; 6 378 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (396,98 ft / 383,86 ft) x 49,21 ft x (19,69 / 20,60 ft) (121,00 m / 117,00 m) x 15,00 m x (6,00 / 6,28 m) Armament: 2 - 7,99" / 203 mm 38,0 cal guns - 242,29lbs / 109,90kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1892 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre 2 - 7,99" / 203 mm 38,0 cal guns - 242,29lbs / 109,90kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1892 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1892 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 2 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1892 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 250 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1892 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 075 lbs / 941 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,254 t each, 0,508 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 246,06 ft / 75,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 98,43 ft / 30,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 39,37 ft / 12,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 99% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 2nd: 2,36" / 60 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 4,72" / 120 mm 3rd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm - 4th: 0,59" / 15 mm 0,28" / 7 mm - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1,81" / 46 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 1,57" / 40 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 11 868 ihp / 8 853 Kw = 20,00 kts Range 2 800nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 820 tons (100% coal) Complement: 340 - 443 Cost: £0,588 million / $2,352 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 412 tons, 6,8% - Guns: 411 tons, 6,8% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 1 349 tons, 22,4% - Belts: 463 tons, 7,7% - Armament: 226 tons, 3,8% - Armour Deck: 615 tons, 10,2% - Conning Towers: 45 tons, 0,7% Machinery: 2 119 tons, 35,2% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 408 tons, 23,4% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 726 tons, 12,1% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 3 601 lbs / 1 633 Kg = 14,1 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 4,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,49 Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 11,2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,37 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,63 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,566 / 0,574 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,80 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 22,64 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 16,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 18,04 ft / 5,50 m - Forward deck: 28,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 43,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 14,34 ft / 4,37 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 131,6% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102,2% Waterplane Area: 13 938 Square feet or 1 295 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91% Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 382 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,86 - Longitudinal: 1,58 - Overall: 0,91 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

von Echenbach: Схема проекта аи Память Азова (или его модернизации с подтягиванием-совмещением с Рюрик-Громобой без гигантского увеличения размеров. Углы обстрела 8": бортовые - 175 градусов, по ДЛ - по 270 градусов. Количество 6" можно увеличить с 10 до 12. Толщина броневого пояса борта 76-140 по ватерлинии, Палуба: а - карапас 47 или б - плоская по верху пояса - 64 мм). Дополнительный вариант изменения проекта: с 6 203 (с сохранением носовой пары 8" орудий на спонсонах) и 8 152 (12-14 120-мм).

Mukhin: Красиво...

von Echenbach: Спасибо. Понимаю что корявенько... :-) Развитие-модернизация в предложенном направлении позволяет уйти от затратного типа "Рюрика" с сомнительным развитием "Пересветов" (скорее по линии РИ можно ожидать продолжения ветви "Николая 1" с 12" ГК) и объединить линии "Баян", "Паллада" и "Богатырь", что сулит приличную экономию. В различных сериях изменять немного очертания корпуса и машины более мощные и экономичные. При развитии проекта с 6х1 8" и 12 4,7" может проявиться сходство с проектом Субботина (Скворцова?) кр 1 ранга с гексагональным расположением ГК 12 (6х2) 6" Нассау-схема дредноута. аи Витязь-Память Азова, аи РИ- МИМФ аи БРКР laid down 1898 Displacement: 5 893 t light; 6 195 t standard; 6 494 t normal; 6 733 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (390,42 ft / 377,30 ft) x 49,21 ft x (22,97 / 23,62 ft) (119,00 m / 115,00 m) x 15,00 m x (7,00 / 7,20 m) Armament: 2 - 7,99" / 203 mm 40,0 cal guns - 244,63lbs / 110,96kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft 4 - 7,99" / 203 mm 40,0 cal guns - 244,63lbs / 110,96kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1898 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 12 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 144 lbs / 973 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,322 t each, 0,643 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 282,15 ft / 86,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 1,46" / 37 mm 88,58 ft / 27,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 115% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,98" / 25 mm 0,47" / 12 mm - 2nd: 0,98" / 25 mm 0,47" / 12 mm - 3rd: 0,71" / 18 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,26" / 32 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 12 411 ihp / 9 258 Kw = 20,00 kts Range 3 200nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 537 tons (100% coal) Complement: 361 - 470 Cost: £0,580 million / $2,321 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 310 tons, 4,8% - Guns: 310 tons, 4,8% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 1 128 tons, 17,4% - Belts: 497 tons, 7,7% - Armament: 45 tons, 0,7% - Armour Deck: 550 tons, 8,5% - Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 2 002 tons, 30,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 453 tons, 37,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 601 tons, 9,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 5 014 lbs / 2 275 Kg = 19,6 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 3,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,39 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 11,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 83 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,29 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,67 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,533 / 0,537 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,67 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,42 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 14,76 ft / 4,50 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88,1% Waterplane Area: 12 754 Square feet or 1 185 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108% Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 597 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,49 - Longitudinal: 3,36 - Overall: 1,61 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

GromoBoy: von Echenbach пишет: Схема проекта аи Память Азова Может, лучше схему французских барбетных броненосцев, с двумя спонсонами в носу, и двумя установками по ДП в корме?

von Echenbach: GromoBoy пишет: Может, лучше схему французских барбетных броненосцев, с двумя спонсонами в носу, и двумя установками по ДП в корме? Вполне приемлемо :-) Русский "Баярд2"/Дюпре. Можно развить в тип "коммерческие скоростные пароходы специального типа" (тоннаж Рюрика, Громобоя, России и м.б. пересветичей на серию кораблей (фактически БрКР в 4000-4500 т.) 16-18 шт можно сделать. Без бортовой брони скорость довести до 21 уз - на 4 пароходах. Последние два - турбинные. "Баян" аи, почтовый пароход специального типа, аи РИ, laid down 1896 Displacement: 3 827 t light; 4 093 t standard; 4 597 t normal; 5 000 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (330,11 ft / 321,52 ft) x 42,65 ft x (19,69 / 21,06 ft) (100,62 m / 98,00 m) x 13,00 m x (6,00 / 6,42 m) Armament: 4 - 7,99" / 203 mm 35,0 cal guns - 239,33lbs / 108,56kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 8 - 5,98" / 152 mm 35,0 cal guns - 100,47lbs / 45,57kg shells, 200 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 12 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 799 lbs / 816 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,298 t each, 1,190 t total In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,62" / 92 mm 255,91 ft / 78,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 122% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - 2nd: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - - Armoured deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,26" / 32 mm Forecastle: 0,71" / 18 mm Quarter deck: 0,71" / 18 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,52" / 64 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 9 021 ihp / 6 730 Kw = 19,00 kts Range 4 200nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 906 tons (100% coal) Complement: 278 - 362 Cost: £0,411 million / $1,644 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 211 tons, 4,6% - Guns: 210 tons, 4,6% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 519 tons, 11,3% - Belts: 250 tons, 5,4% - Armament: 30 tons, 0,6% - Armour Deck: 225 tons, 4,9% - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 1 504 tons, 32,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 592 tons, 34,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 770 tons, 16,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 3 674 lbs / 1 667 Kg = 14,4 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 3,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,37 Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 11,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,596 / 0,606 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,54 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,37 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,06 ft / 5,20 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114,4% Waterplane Area: 10 245 Square feet or 952 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110% Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 445 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,14 - Longitudinal: 4,69 - Overall: 1,32 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

von Echenbach: Немного "поиграться" с Пам. Азова и Нахимов: схема 5х1 и 5х2, на основе схемы "Дредноута" 1905 г. - ? СК по 12 120-мм.

GromoBoy: Картинку!

von Echenbach: Поборолся с шарпием - аи Адмирал Нахимов, аи РИ аи бркр laid down 1886 Barbette ship Displacement: 7 647 t light; 8 013 t standard; 8 497 t normal; 8 885 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (382,04 ft / 370,73 ft) x 55,77 ft x (26,25 / 27,15 ft) (116,45 m / 113,00 m) x 17,00 m x (8,00 / 8,28 m) Armament: 10 - 7,99" / 203 mm 35,0 cal guns - 232,04lbs / 105,25kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1886 Model 3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 40,0 cal guns - 48,99lbs / 22,22kg shells, 160 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1886 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,10lbs / 1,41kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1886 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 933 lbs / 1 330 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,198 t each, 0,792 t total In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm 216,54 ft / 66,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 22,97 ft / 7,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 90% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 9 403 ihp / 7 015 Kw = 17,00 kts Range 3 200nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 872 tons (100% coal) Complement: 442 - 575 Cost: £0,666 million / $2,663 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 576 tons, 6,8% - Guns: 575 tons, 6,8% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 2 194 tons, 25,8% - Belts: 747 tons, 8,8% - Armament: 793 tons, 9,3% - Armour Deck: 611 tons, 7,2% - Conning Towers: 42 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 808 tons, 21,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 069 tons, 36,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 851 tons, 10,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 408 lbs / 4 267 Kg = 39,2 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 10,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 13,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,69 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,548 / 0,554 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,65 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 22,61 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 36,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 34,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,74 ft / 5,41 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105,5% Waterplane Area: 14 995 Square feet or 1 393 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118% Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 678 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,13 - Longitudinal: 3,86 - Overall: 1,28 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather Немного удлинен, в носу добавлен барбет с парой ГК, всего ГК 5х2 203/35, батарея СК из 12 120-мм. Бортовой пояс по ватерлинии, 40-180-40. Палуба - 30-60, барбеты и рубка - 90. Картинка - позже.

von Echenbach: Идея и основа рисунка взяты на альтистории, автор ув. А.Толстой. - http://alternathistory.com/nepobedimaya-pobeda/ Итало-японские корни. Развил, применив Австро-венгерские наработки и пр. Меньше было бы водоизмещение при барбетной системе установок, но ... МТК идею не принял. Поэтому: 12000т, 22 (на 1902) - 26 (на 1913) уз, 18 котлов, 2 ПМ/ПТ, на 12 уз - 2600 миль. Борт, башни, рубка, барбеты - 140, Палуба оконечности, казематы - 60-30. 3х2 305/40 (А-В 305/45) 12х1 120/45. 4 47, 2 бортовых та. аи Победа, аи Баян (с 8"), аи австро-венгерский Санкт-Георг.

Mukhin: Зверь машина

von Echenbach: Небольшой вопрос о аи-проектах. Аи-проект "Баян"-модернизация: что предпочтительнее - изменение проекта 1905 года (фактически - ещё 1897 года) на схему с: а) 3х2 203/45 и 12 102/16 75/ или б) 4х2 203 и 12-16 75? Двух-орудийные установки палубного типа, за щитом (подобие - китайских/крупповских 210-мм. Возможно при встраивании в корпус дополнительно некоего отсека + возможность перехода ГЭУ на турбины французских разработок (на лайнерах уже что-то было в 1906?).

Инженер Сидоров: Для "Баянцев" я уже как-то предлагал, как вариант 4х1-229/45 и 10-12 - 120/50 с полным удалением более мелких калибров и ТА. von Echenbach пишет: на лайнерах уже что-то было в 1906? Было. У Кунарда. "Кармания" - 1905 год, "Лузитания" и "Мавритания" - 1907 год.

von Echenbach: Развитие "реанимированного" проекта "Гангут": - http://alternathistory.com/gangut-vozmozhno-on-mog-byt-takim/ Из проекта "Имп. Александр II" что-то взяли и уменьшили... Корпус, ГК... Переклассифицировали в Эскадренный БРКР, 12 9" ( 2х2 нос, корма, 8х1 в казематах в два яруса, один ярус ниже / или на 1/2 ниже верхней палубы - похожее от реального 6" каземата "12 Апостолов" м.б. "Наварин" опережает реал и соответствует "Александру" с "Николаем" - м.б. как "океанские лёгкие броненосцы". Гангут + Сисой + ? Ретвизан laid down 1886, Displacement: 5 983 t light; 6 316 t standard; 6 538 t normal; 6 716 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (291,99 ft / 275,59 ft) x 62,34 ft x (22,97 / 23,47 ft) (89,00 m / 84,00 m) x 19,00 m x (7,00 / 7,15 m) Armament: 4 - 9,02" / 229 mm 35,0 cal guns - 333,11lbs / 151,09kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1886 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 4 - 9,02" / 229 mm 35,0 cal guns - 333,11lbs / 151,09kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1886 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 - 9,02" / 229 mm 35,0 cal guns - 333,11lbs / 151,09kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1886 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,10lbs / 1,41kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1886 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 4 022 lbs / 1 824 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m torpedoes - 0,225 t each, 0,899 t total submerged bow & stern tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 13,0" / 330 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 7,09" / 180 mm 98,43 ft / 30,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 92% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 9,02" / 229 mm 7,99" / 203 mm 9,02" / 229 mm 2nd: 7,99" / 203 mm 4,02" / 102 mm - 3rd: 7,99" / 203 mm 4,02" / 102 mm - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,26" / 32 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,99" / 203 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 506 ihp / 4 853 Kw = 16,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 400 tons (100% coal) Complement: 363 - 472 Cost: £0,580 million / $2,320 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 594 tons, 9,1% - Guns: 593 tons, 9,1% - Weapons: 2 tons, 0,0% Armour: 2 375 tons, 36,3% - Belts: 1 049 tons, 16,0% - Armament: 734 tons, 11,2% - Armour Deck: 532 tons, 8,1% - Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0,9% Machinery: 1 251 tons, 19,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 763 tons, 27,0% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 555 tons, 8,5% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 6 586 lbs / 2 987 Kg = 19,1 x 9,0 " / 229 mm shells or 8,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,40 Metacentric height 4,4 ft / 1,3 m Roll period: 12,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,65 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,76 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,580 / 0,583 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,42 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 16,60 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 3,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,64 ft / 5,07 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106,1% Waterplane Area: 12 331 Square feet or 1 146 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97% Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 550 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,74 - Longitudinal: 4,00 - Overall: 0,88 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

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