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Броненосные крейсера империи
von Echenbach: Россия развивает тип мореходного броненосного корабля. АИ Минин, Ри башенный броненоец laid down 1866 Barbette ship 4х2 11" (м.б. 9") в башнях в оконечностях. 4х2 в барбетах 9" (а - по два барбета побортно, б - барбеты ромбом, все возвышенно над башнями ГК, на надстройке. В надстройке батарея малого/среднего калибра /152-120-107/ [more] Displacement: 5 311 t light; 5 626 t standard; 5 872 t normal; 6 069 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (308,40 ft / 298,56 ft) x 55,77 ft x (19,69 / 20,24 ft) (94,00 m / 91,00 m) x 17,00 m x (6,00 / 6,17 m) Armament: 4 - 11,02" / 280 mm 25,0 cal guns - 486,70lbs / 220,76kg shells, 70 per gun Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1866 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 8 - 9,02" / 229 mm 25,0 cal guns - 266,25lbs / 120,77kg shells, 80 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1866 Model 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft 12 - 4,21" / 107 mm 25,0 cal guns - 27,16lbs / 12,32kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1866 Model 6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 6 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft Weight of broadside 4 403 lbs / 1 997 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 14,2" / 360 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,038 t each, 0,152 t total submerged bow & stern tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 183,73 ft / 56,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 147,64 ft / 45,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Upper: 7,09" / 180 mm 183,73 ft / 56,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 95% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 5,91" / 150 mm 2nd: 7,09" / 180 mm - 3,94" / 100 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4 211 ihp / 3 142 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 7,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 444 tons (100% coal) Complement: 335 - 436 Cost: £0,532 million / $2,127 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 589 tons, 10,0% - Guns: 589 tons, 10,0% - Weapons: 0 tons, 0,0% Armour: 2 234 tons, 38,0% - Belts: 1 126 tons, 19,2% - Armament: 535 tons, 9,1% - Armour Deck: 522 tons, 8,9% - Conning Tower: 50 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 1 132 tons, 19,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 356 tons, 23,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 562 tons, 9,6% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2 257 lbs / 1 024 Kg = 5,3 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 35,9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31 Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 12,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,99 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,83 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,627 / 0,630 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,35 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 17,28 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Average freeboard: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,7% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93,2% Waterplane Area: 12 489 Square feet or 1 160 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93% Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 462 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,49 - Longitudinal: 1,59 - Overall: 0,55 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather[/more] и АИ Пожарский, Ри броненосный фрегат laid down 1865 Barbette ship Displacement: 4 695 t light; 4 945 t standard; 5 183 t normal; 5 373 t full load [more] Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (308,40 ft / 298,56 ft) x 52,49 ft x (19,69 / 20,27 ft) (94,00 m / 91,00 m) x 16,00 m x (6,00 / 6,18 m) Armament: 4 - 9,02" / 229 mm 25,0 cal guns - 263,11lbs / 119,35kg shells, 80 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1865 Model 2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 - 9,02" / 229 mm 25,0 cal guns - 263,11lbs / 119,35kg shells, 70 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1865 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft 2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 5,98" / 152 mm 25,0 cal guns - 76,94lbs / 34,90kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1865 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 4,21" / 107 mm 25,0 cal guns - 26,84lbs / 12,17kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1865 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft Weight of broadside 2 935 lbs / 1 331 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 14,2" / 360 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,032 t each, 0,128 t total submerged bow & stern tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10,2" / 260 mm 170,60 ft / 52,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 127,95 ft / 39,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Upper: 5,91" / 150 mm 177,17 ft / 54,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Main Belt covers 88% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 2,01" / 51 mm - 7,09" / 180 mm 2nd: 7,09" / 180 mm - 2,01" / 51 mm 3rd: 7,09" / 180 mm - 2,01" / 51 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 1,85" / 47 mm Forecastle: 1,46" / 37 mm Quarter deck: 1,46" / 37 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,09" / 180 mm, Aft 2,01" / 51 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 870 ihp / 2 887 Kw = 14,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 7,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 428 tons (100% coal) Complement: 305 - 397 Cost: £0,401 million / $1,605 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 311 tons, 6,0% - Guns: 311 tons, 6,0% - Weapons: 0 tons, 0,0% Armour: 2 186 tons, 42,2% - Belts: 1 155 tons, 22,3% - Armament: 597 tons, 11,5% - Armour Deck: 376 tons, 7,2% - Conning Towers: 59 tons, 1,1% Machinery: 1 067 tons, 20,6% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 130 tons, 21,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 488 tons, 9,4% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2 618 lbs / 1 187 Kg = 11,4 x 9,0 " / 229 mm shells or 46,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,37 Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m Roll period: 12,1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,89 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck , a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,588 / 0,592 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,69 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 17,28 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m, 11,48 ft / 3,50 m - Average freeboard: 16,81 ft / 5,13 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,2% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,3% Waterplane Area: 11 334 Square feet or 1 053 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101% Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 360 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,46 - Longitudinal: 1,88 - Overall: 0,53 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Excellent accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather[/more]
Ответов - 33, стр:
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von Echenbach: Схема проекта аи Память Азова (или его модернизации с подтягиванием-совмещением с Рюрик-Громобой без гигантского увеличения размеров. Углы обстрела 8": бортовые - 175 градусов, по ДЛ - по 270 градусов. Количество 6" можно увеличить с 10 до 12. Толщина броневого пояса борта 76-140 по ватерлинии, Палуба: а - карапас 47 или б - плоская по верху пояса - 64 мм). Дополнительный вариант изменения проекта: с 6 203 (с сохранением носовой пары 8" орудий на спонсонах) и 8 152 (12-14 120-мм).
Mukhin: Красиво...
von Echenbach: Спасибо. Понимаю что корявенько... :-) Развитие-модернизация в предложенном направлении позволяет уйти от затратного типа "Рюрика" с сомнительным развитием "Пересветов" (скорее по линии РИ можно ожидать продолжения ветви "Николая 1" с 12" ГК) и объединить линии "Баян", "Паллада" и "Богатырь", что сулит приличную экономию. В различных сериях изменять немного очертания корпуса и машины более мощные и экономичные. При развитии проекта с 6х1 8" и 12 4,7" может проявиться сходство с проектом Субботина (Скворцова?) кр 1 ранга с гексагональным расположением ГК 12 (6х2) 6" Нассау-схема дредноута. аи Витязь-Память Азова, аи РИ- МИМФ аи БРКР laid down 1898 Displacement: 5 893 t light; 6 195 t standard; 6 494 t normal; 6 733 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (390,42 ft / 377,30 ft) x 49,21 ft x (22,97 / 23,62 ft) (119,00 m / 115,00 m) x 15,00 m x (7,00 / 7,20 m) Armament: 2 - 7,99" / 203 mm 40,0 cal guns - 244,63lbs / 110,96kg shells, 120 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model 1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft 4 - 7,99" / 203 mm 40,0 cal guns - 244,63lbs / 110,96kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 53,17lbs / 24,12kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1898 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas 12 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 144 lbs / 973 kg Main Torpedoes 2 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,322 t each, 0,643 t total In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 4,72" / 120 mm 282,15 ft / 86,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 1,46" / 37 mm 88,58 ft / 27,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 115% of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,98" / 25 mm 0,47" / 12 mm - 2nd: 0,98" / 25 mm 0,47" / 12 mm - 3rd: 0,71" / 18 mm - - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,26" / 32 mm - Conning towers: Forward 4,72" / 120 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 12 411 ihp / 9 258 Kw = 20,00 kts Range 3 200nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 537 tons (100% coal) Complement: 361 - 470 Cost: £0,580 million / $2,321 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 310 tons, 4,8% - Guns: 310 tons, 4,8% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 1 128 tons, 17,4% - Belts: 497 tons, 7,7% - Armament: 45 tons, 0,7% - Armour Deck: 550 tons, 8,5% - Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 2 002 tons, 30,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 453 tons, 37,8% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 601 tons, 9,3% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 5 014 lbs / 2 275 Kg = 19,6 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 3,8 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,39 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 11,8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 83 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,29 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,67 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck , an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,533 / 0,537 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,67 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,42 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 14,76 ft / 4,50 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88,1% Waterplane Area: 12 754 Square feet or 1 185 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108% Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 597 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,49 - Longitudinal: 3,36 - Overall: 1,61 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Cramped accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
GromoBoy: von Echenbach пишет: Схема проекта аи Память Азова Может, лучше схему французских барбетных броненосцев, с двумя спонсонами в носу, и двумя установками по ДП в корме?
von Echenbach: GromoBoy пишет: Может, лучше схему французских барбетных броненосцев, с двумя спонсонами в носу, и двумя установками по ДП в корме? Вполне приемлемо :-) Русский "Баярд2"/Дюпре. Можно развить в тип "коммерческие скоростные пароходы специального типа" (тоннаж Рюрика, Громобоя, России и м.б. пересветичей на серию кораблей (фактически БрКР в 4000-4500 т.) 16-18 шт можно сделать. Без бортовой брони скорость довести до 21 уз - на 4 пароходах. Последние два - турбинные. "Баян" аи, почтовый пароход специального типа, аи РИ, laid down 1896 Displacement: 3 827 t light; 4 093 t standard; 4 597 t normal; 5 000 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (330,11 ft / 321,52 ft) x 42,65 ft x (19,69 / 21,06 ft) (100,62 m / 98,00 m) x 13,00 m x (6,00 / 6,42 m) Armament: 4 - 7,99" / 203 mm 35,0 cal guns - 239,33lbs / 108,56kg shells, 150 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward 2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread 8 - 5,98" / 152 mm 35,0 cal guns - 100,47lbs / 45,57kg shells, 200 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 12 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 250 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 1 799 lbs / 816 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,298 t each, 1,190 t total In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3,62" / 92 mm 255,91 ft / 78,00 m 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Ends: Unarmoured Main Belt covers 122% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - 2nd: 0,71" / 18 mm 0,31" / 8 mm - - Armoured deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 1,26" / 32 mm Forecastle: 0,71" / 18 mm Quarter deck: 0,71" / 18 mm - Conning towers: Forward 2,52" / 64 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 9 021 ihp / 6 730 Kw = 19,00 kts Range 4 200nm at 11,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 906 tons (100% coal) Complement: 278 - 362 Cost: £0,411 million / $1,644 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 211 tons, 4,6% - Guns: 210 tons, 4,6% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 519 tons, 11,3% - Belts: 250 tons, 5,4% - Armament: 30 tons, 0,6% - Armour Deck: 225 tons, 4,9% - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0,3% Machinery: 1 504 tons, 32,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 592 tons, 34,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 770 tons, 16,7% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 3 674 lbs / 1 667 Kg = 14,4 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 3,3 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,37 Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m Roll period: 11,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and small transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,596 / 0,606 Length to Beam Ratio: 7,54 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 19,37 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 40,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,06 ft / 5,20 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114,4% Waterplane Area: 10 245 Square feet or 952 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110% Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 445 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,14 - Longitudinal: 4,69 - Overall: 1,32 Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
von Echenbach: Немного "поиграться" с Пам. Азова и Нахимов: схема 5х1 и 5х2, на основе схемы "Дредноута" 1905 г. - ? СК по 12 120-мм.
GromoBoy: Картинку!
von Echenbach: Поборолся с шарпием - аи Адмирал Нахимов, аи РИ аи бркр laid down 1886 Barbette ship Displacement: 7 647 t light; 8 013 t standard; 8 497 t normal; 8 885 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (382,04 ft / 370,73 ft) x 55,77 ft x (26,25 / 27,15 ft) (116,45 m / 113,00 m) x 17,00 m x (8,00 / 8,28 m) Armament: 10 - 7,99" / 203 mm 35,0 cal guns - 232,04lbs / 105,25kg shells, 110 per gun Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1886 Model 3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward 2 x 2-gun mounts on sides, aft deck forward 12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 40,0 cal guns - 48,99lbs / 22,22kg shells, 160 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1886 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread 12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,10lbs / 1,41kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1886 Model 8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2 933 lbs / 1 330 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m torpedoes - 0,198 t each, 0,792 t total In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 7,09" / 180 mm 216,54 ft / 66,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 131,23 ft / 40,00 m 9,84 ft / 3,00 m 22,97 ft / 7,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 90% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 2nd: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,59" / 15 mm - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm - Conning towers: Forward 3,54" / 90 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 9 403 ihp / 7 015 Kw = 17,00 kts Range 3 200nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 872 tons (100% coal) Complement: 442 - 575 Cost: £0,666 million / $2,663 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 576 tons, 6,8% - Guns: 575 tons, 6,8% - Weapons: 1 tons, 0,0% Armour: 2 194 tons, 25,8% - Belts: 747 tons, 8,8% - Armament: 793 tons, 9,3% - Armour Deck: 611 tons, 7,2% - Conning Towers: 42 tons, 0,5% Machinery: 1 808 tons, 21,3% Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 069 tons, 36,1% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 851 tons, 10,0% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9 408 lbs / 4 267 Kg = 39,2 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 10,2 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24 Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m Roll period: 13,4 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,69 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, a normal bow and large transom stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,548 / 0,554 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,65 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 22,61 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m - Forward deck: 36,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 34,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 13,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 17,74 ft / 5,41 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,3% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105,5% Waterplane Area: 14 995 Square feet or 1 393 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118% Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 678 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 1,13 - Longitudinal: 3,86 - Overall: 1,28 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather Немного удлинен, в носу добавлен барбет с парой ГК, всего ГК 5х2 203/35, батарея СК из 12 120-мм. Бортовой пояс по ватерлинии, 40-180-40. Палуба - 30-60, барбеты и рубка - 90. Картинка - позже.
von Echenbach: Идея и основа рисунка взяты на альтистории, автор ув. А.Толстой. - http://alternathistory.com/nepobedimaya-pobeda/ Итало-японские корни. Развил, применив Австро-венгерские наработки и пр. Меньше было бы водоизмещение при барбетной системе установок, но ... МТК идею не принял. Поэтому: 12000т, 22 (на 1902) - 26 (на 1913) уз, 18 котлов, 2 ПМ/ПТ, на 12 уз - 2600 миль. Борт, башни, рубка, барбеты - 140, Палуба оконечности, казематы - 60-30. 3х2 305/40 (А-В 305/45) 12х1 120/45. 4 47, 2 бортовых та. аи Победа, аи Баян (с 8"), аи австро-венгерский Санкт-Георг.
Mukhin: Зверь машина
von Echenbach: Небольшой вопрос о аи-проектах. Аи-проект "Баян"-модернизация: что предпочтительнее - изменение проекта 1905 года (фактически - ещё 1897 года) на схему с: а) 3х2 203/45 и 12 102/16 75/ или б) 4х2 203 и 12-16 75? Двух-орудийные установки палубного типа, за щитом (подобие - китайских/крупповских 210-мм. Возможно при встраивании в корпус дополнительно некоего отсека + возможность перехода ГЭУ на турбины французских разработок (на лайнерах уже что-то было в 1906?).
Инженер Сидоров: Для "Баянцев" я уже как-то предлагал, как вариант 4х1-229/45 и 10-12 - 120/50 с полным удалением более мелких калибров и ТА. von Echenbach пишет: на лайнерах уже что-то было в 1906? Было. У Кунарда. "Кармания" - 1905 год, "Лузитания" и "Мавритания" - 1907 год.
von Echenbach: Развитие "реанимированного" проекта "Гангут": - http://alternathistory.com/gangut-vozmozhno-on-mog-byt-takim/ Из проекта "Имп. Александр II" что-то взяли и уменьшили... Корпус, ГК... Переклассифицировали в Эскадренный БРКР, 12 9" ( 2х2 нос, корма, 8х1 в казематах в два яруса, один ярус ниже / или на 1/2 ниже верхней палубы - похожее от реального 6" каземата "12 Апостолов" м.б. "Наварин" опережает реал и соответствует "Александру" с "Николаем" - м.б. как "океанские лёгкие броненосцы". Гангут + Сисой + ? Ретвизан laid down 1886, Displacement: 5 983 t light; 6 316 t standard; 6 538 t normal; 6 716 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (291,99 ft / 275,59 ft) x 62,34 ft x (22,97 / 23,47 ft) (89,00 m / 84,00 m) x 19,00 m x (7,00 / 7,15 m) Armament: 4 - 9,02" / 229 mm 35,0 cal guns - 333,11lbs / 151,09kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1886 Model 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck forward 1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck aft 4 - 9,02" / 229 mm 35,0 cal guns - 333,11lbs / 151,09kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1886 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas 4 - 9,02" / 229 mm 35,0 cal guns - 333,11lbs / 151,09kg shells, 90 per gun Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1886 Model 2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,10lbs / 1,41kg shells, 150 per gun Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1886 Model 4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft 4 raised mounts 4 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward 4 raised mounts Weight of broadside 4 022 lbs / 1 824 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 15,0" / 380 mm, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m torpedoes - 0,225 t each, 0,899 t total submerged bow & stern tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 13,0" / 330 mm 164,04 ft / 50,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m Ends: 7,09" / 180 mm 98,43 ft / 30,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m 13,12 ft / 4,00 m Unarmoured ends Main Belt covers 92% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 9,02" / 229 mm 7,99" / 203 mm 9,02" / 229 mm 2nd: 7,99" / 203 mm 4,02" / 102 mm - 3rd: 7,99" / 203 mm 4,02" / 102 mm - - Protected deck - single deck: For and Aft decks: 2,52" / 64 mm Forecastle: 1,26" / 32 mm Quarter deck: 1,26" / 32 mm - Conning towers: Forward 7,99" / 203 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 506 ihp / 4 853 Kw = 16,00 kts Range 1 800nm at 9,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 400 tons (100% coal) Complement: 363 - 472 Cost: £0,580 million / $2,320 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 594 tons, 9,1% - Guns: 593 tons, 9,1% - Weapons: 2 tons, 0,0% Armour: 2 375 tons, 36,3% - Belts: 1 049 tons, 16,0% - Armament: 734 tons, 11,2% - Armour Deck: 532 tons, 8,1% - Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0,9% Machinery: 1 251 tons, 19,1% Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 763 tons, 27,0% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 555 tons, 8,5% Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 6 586 lbs / 2 987 Kg = 19,1 x 9,0 " / 229 mm shells or 8,1 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,40 Metacentric height 4,4 ft / 1,3 m Roll period: 12,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,65 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,76 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a ram bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,580 / 0,583 Length to Beam Ratio: 4,42 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 16,60 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 3,00 degrees Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 18,00%, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Aft deck: 38,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Quarter deck: 14,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m - Average freeboard: 16,64 ft / 5,07 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106,1% Waterplane Area: 12 331 Square feet or 1 146 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97% Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 550 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,74 - Longitudinal: 4,00 - Overall: 0,88 Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
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